1500rr
Junior Member
Posts: 61
|
Post by 1500rr on Jan 3, 2010 11:56:42 GMT -5
How cold or snowy does it need to get for you to stay inside and hit the treadmill?
Also, i have heard mixed opinions on whether or not treadmills really give you the same workout as running. Could somebody help clarify this?
|
|
pmac
Junior Member
Posts: 122
|
Post by pmac on Jan 3, 2010 12:36:21 GMT -5
|
|
mpd
Junior Member
Posts: 102
|
Post by mpd on Jan 3, 2010 16:23:14 GMT -5
That thread was terrible! "Real runners always run outside..." I disagree fully! My old coach says, "there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad dress." I understand his point, but if I'm going to be slipping around or unable to benefit from the run then I'll go inside (either on a treadmill or even do 70-80 laps of an indoor track (changing directions if possible and running in the outside lane)).
It seems like a lot of runners run outside in -30+ weather to say how "tough" they are but if you ask me it's quite foolish and will assuredly lead to counterproductive runs and injuries.
Interestingly, Ritz has a quote by Bowerman on his site this week: "There is no such thing as bad weather, just soft people." I wonder if Bowerman would change his mind if he had to deal with our 4 months of Canadian weather...
|
|
|
|
Post by rocknroll on Jan 3, 2010 16:35:30 GMT -5
That thread was terrible! "Real runners always run outside..." I disagree fully! If I'm going to be slipping around or be so uncomfortable that I won't benefit from the run then I'll go inside (either on a treadmill or even do 70-80 laps of an indoor track (changing directions if possible and running in the outside lane)). It seems like a lot of runners run outside in -30+ weather to say how "tough" they are but if you ask me it's quite foolish and will assuredly lead to counterproductive runs and injuries. and running 70-80 laps on an indoor track wont? If your bundled up good you should be able to run in almost any temperature, even the -40 days can feel nice, and they definitely make the -20 days feel really nice once it warms up a bit. For me, the only time i go in on the tredmill is if the trails havent been cleaned, and theres over 3-4 inches of snow to have to run through, then it may be counterproductive. |
|
F.T
Full Member
Posts: 293
|
Post by F.T on Jan 3, 2010 17:23:14 GMT -5
While looking out my window at the -21 degree 48km/h winds i'd have to say that without a treadmill, i would certianly be unable to run. Especially since they just closed the road on which i live, and the fact that the word "Plowed" is a word not frequently used to describe our roads. Now, given im from up north, my opinion will be different from someone living in say windsor, so, I will say yes, a treadmill is always a good idea, and it's even a better idea if you live in an area like i do where 21 degree 48km/h winds sound like another typical day  Side note: according to flotrack, Simon Bairu (1st in the senior division at the 2009 Canadian XC Championships) "keeps up to form by running on tread mills in the winter" www.flotrack.org/videos/speaker/60-bairu-simon |
|
|
|
Post by rocknroll on Jan 3, 2010 17:49:49 GMT -5
yeah i guess i forgot to mention that i will use tredmills if i am doing a longer, tempo workout/run, since its hard to get a good workout in with bad weather conditions where the footing is poor and you can't feel your toes, although they are probably the most boring workouts possible, running in a hot sweaty gym is just not appealing to me. thats why for easy runs i'd rather just suffer through the cold, since its much more enjoyable, and the change in scenery throughout the run is nice, although as a rule i usually wont go below -50(incl. windshield).
|
|
|
|
Post by SI on Jan 3, 2010 19:17:30 GMT -5
I still don't understand the question. And it wasn't a theoretical question today. Got a whole bunch of these messages form a service I subscribe to starting yesterday afternoon. Went skiing and then I put on a balaclava and some heavier gloves with my regular running clothes and it was actually quite enjoyable. www.nyalert.gov/Public/News/AlertView.aspx?messageID=328530¬ID=3047920&refer=HOME&source=ADFTFT&"Alert / Warning Meteorological THIS IS AN ACTUAL EVENT Issued By: NWS Affected Jurisdictions: Cattaraugus, Cayuga, Chautauqua, Erie, Genesee, Monroe, Niagara, Orleans, Oswego, Wayne Counties Headline: (EXTENSION - time) URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BUFFALO NY 340 PM EST SUN JAN 3 2010 ...SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW WILL CONTINUE TO IMPACT THE AREA INTO TONIGHT... .DEEP LOW PRESSURE OFF THE MAINE COAST WILL CONTINUE TO DRAW ARCTIC AIR AND MOISTURE SOUTHWARD ACROSS OUR REGION TONIGHT. THE GENERAL SN OWN WILL GRADUALLY WIND DOWN...WITH THE HEAVIEST SNOWS CONTINUING TO BE FOCUS SOUTHEAST OF THE LAKES. BRISK NORTHWEST WINDS...COUPLED WITH LOW DENSITY SNOW...WILL CREATE BLOWING AND DRIFTING SNOW WITH POOR VISIBILITIES AND DIFFICULT DRIVING CONDITIONS...ESPECIALLY THIS EVENING. NYZ001>003-010-011-040445- /IAGARA-ORLEANS-MONROE-NORTHERN ERIE-GENESEE- INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...NIAGARA FALLS...MEDINA...ROCHESTER... BUFFALO...BATAVIA 340 PM EST SUN JAN 3 2010 ...LAKE EFFECT SNOW WARNING NOW IN EFFECT UNTIL MIDNIGHT EST TONIGHT... THE LAKE EFFECT SNOW WARNING IS NOW IN EFFECT UNTIL MIDNIGHT EST TONIGHT. BANDS OF SNOW AND EMBEDDED HEAVIER LAKE EFFECT SNOW WILL CONTINUE TO IMPACT THE AREA INTO THIS EVENING. SNOWFALL RATES UP TO ONE INCH PER HOUR WILL BE POSSIBLE. LOCAL STORM TOTALS COULD EXCEED ONE FEET...ESPECIALLY FOR AREAS JUST TO THE SOUTH OF LAKE ONTARIO...INCLUDING LEWISTON...LOCKPORT...NEWFANE...LYNDONVILLE ...KENDALL...HILTON...AND WEBSTER. THE SNOW WILL GRADUALLY DIMINISH DURING THE EVENING HOURS. CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED TO IMPROVE BY MIDNIGHT. THE COMBINATION OF SNOW AND GUSTY NORTHWEST WINDS WILL CREATE AREAS OF BLOWING AND DRIFTING SNOW THIS EVENING. WIND CHILLS WILL BE ZERO TO 5 BELOW TONIGHT. DANGEROUS DRIVING CONDITIONS WILL EXIST THIS EVENING. ROADS WILL BE SNOW COVERED...VERY SLICK AND HAZARDOUS. PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS... IN LAKE EFFECT SNOW THE WEATHER CAN VARY FROM LOCALLY HEAVY SNOW IN NARROW BANDS TO CLEAR SKIES JUST A FEW MILES AWAY. IF YOU WILL BE TRAVELING ACROSS THE REGION BE PREPARED FOR RAPID CHANGES IN ROAD AND VISIBILITY CONDITIONS. STAY TUNED TO NOAA WEATHER RADIO OR YOUR FAVORITE SOURCE OF WEATHER INFORMATION FOR THE LATEST UPDATES. ADDITIONAL DETAILS CAN ALSO BE FOUND AT WWW.WEATHER.GOV/BUFFALO. $$ Please stay tuned to your local radio or TV Station for more information. THIS IS AN ACTUAL EVENT" |
|
1500rr
Junior Member
Posts: 61
|
Post by 1500rr on Jan 3, 2010 19:40:54 GMT -5
i guess what i am trying to ask is where do you draw the line, and when does an effective workout turn into an ineffective or counterproductive workout?
|
|
|
|
Post by lucky13 on Jan 3, 2010 19:41:51 GMT -5
My issue is more of how far I can go in low temperatures/high wind/icy conditions. After about an hour I start to get grumpy and sore. So I keep a running bag by the door with dry shoes and go out and try to get 8-9 miles in, go home, grab the bag and finish the last miles at the gym, wearing my under layers.
|
|
|
|
Post by crossrunner7 on Jan 3, 2010 19:58:36 GMT -5
I'd say if it gets to the point where your vision is impaired by blizzard, ice accumilating in your eyelashes, etc. the cold is never a problem because we can dress for it but the conditions such as visual or road conditions are the things that effect whether you should run or not because if you can't see and if a car can't see you or if you are slipping all over the place then you should probably forgo running outside and try other means of doing your workout. In my opinion i do not like the treadmill, i like the eliptical but the treadmill works if thats all you have.
|
|
gwig
Full Member
Posts: 125
|
Post by gwig on Jan 3, 2010 20:09:06 GMT -5
I went running today in crazy snowy weather  but for some reason I can never run properly on tredmills , I don't know why but I can't run straight or use my full stride. |
|
pmac
Junior Member
Posts: 122
|
Post by pmac on Jan 3, 2010 20:33:40 GMT -5
Men ran races before they could train indoors, even in this country. Sure the snow can make things difficult, but cold weather alone is not a reason to prevent me from doing a run or workout outdoors. I respect that not everyone feels the same, but in reiterating what many have said already (both here and in the thread I linked previously), if you dress for it, it's no problem.
Zatopek put it best:
"It's at the borders of pain and suffering that the men are separated from the boys."
|
|
|
|
Post by trailer on Jan 3, 2010 21:16:01 GMT -5
Personally, I haven't done a run on a treadmill in my over 40 years of running. When it gets really nasty out there, I add a balaclava to my wardrobe, but I haven't needed it yet this winter. I'd be willing to bet that two of my Canadian heroes, Jerome Drayton and Grant McLaren never did treadmill workouts. I find that the tougher the weather condition, winter or summer, the more I love the challenge of doing a workout in it. And a few running mates (including a three time Olympian) and I, used to do weekly workouts in deep snow on the trails. It involved a higher knee lift, but was fun and satisfying.
|
|
mpd
Junior Member
Posts: 102
|
Post by mpd on Jan 3, 2010 21:32:37 GMT -5
I'd be willing to bet that two of my Canadian heroes, Jerome Drayton and Grant McLaren never did treadmill workouts. You are right. But Jerome did do 70+min runs at the exhibition track and Grant made use of the tunnel system at UWO, before they had their indoor track. Temperature is one thing but it is the footing conditions which causes me to use the treadmill. |
|
|
|
Post by SI on Jan 4, 2010 8:17:52 GMT -5
Use the snow as an opportunity. It can be used for a great resistance workout and, like hills, there is less stress on the joints.
|
|
|
|
Post by saskatchewan on Jan 4, 2010 13:25:54 GMT -5
How cold or snowy does it need to get for you to stay inside and hit the treadmill? Also, i have heard mixed opinions on whether or not treadmills really give you the same workout as running. Could somebody help clarify this? My personal opinion would be hit the treadmill whenever you feel like it. For some that would be nearly everyday, for others that will be never. Yes, workouts on a treadmill are different then outdoors, with the biggest thing being that you are being pulled along by the treadmill rather then you propelling yourself fwd along the road, track, etc) but if winter weather in your area is like it can be in SK then a treadmill is likely a nice option to have available. I live in Regina and would say that the weather here from Nov 1 - March 31 can be pretty lousy (whether it be slippery streets, crazy wind, excessive cold, etc) at least 25% of that time. Lots of great Regina runners (Barui, Baiton, etc) have used treadmills extensively (and successfully) to supplement their training in the winter. To put it in context, on Jan 1, 2010 I ran 13km outdoors in -32C (windchill was -45C) and while i got a workout in i really didn't enjoy it, and likely risked a lot more chance of injury slipping along the glassy roads then i gained through any 'toughing it up in the snow'. As for the 'snow will toughen you up" thoughts in general, the lack of snow in Portland doesn't seem to have hindered Simon at all. And his frequent winter treadmill training here in Regina when he was younger certainly didn't prevent him from becoming a x-c animal. To each his own, if you like slipping and sliding in the snow then go for it, but you are certainly no wimp if you decide to train on a treadmill. P.S. After my Jan 1 experience this year i went home and ordered a NorticTrack treadmill. |
|
|
|
Post by prefontainelives on Jan 4, 2010 18:22:26 GMT -5
What dosn't kill you can only make you stronger. So if you don't die, go for it. a broken leg that ruins your running career or a broken back from being hit by a car doesnt exactly help your cause either...though you might live to tell the tale. theres only one simple way to put it...cold you can dress for but if your only options are slippery roads where although fine for tempo/recovery runs are not as benificial for harder longer workouts or runs. In my personal opinion a treadmill is a last option...although today i wish i had of chosen it. Not overly cold but the roads were covered in wet snow making traction near impossible giving me a very slow time and not a good workout. I live near alot of residential areas and its good to know where the plow hits first and where it doesnt. |
|
|
|
Post by spaff on Jan 4, 2010 19:23:06 GMT -5
I'm sorry...but there are enough good traction device options out there that using the excuse of slippery roads is a cop out. You can get a far superior and more specific workout with the proper footwear and traction device outdoors in the winter than on a treadmill. Treadmills can be good for certain types of workouts (ie. longer uphill workouts for mountain runners) or even not bad for tempo runs to focus on constant pacing. However, if you what to get out for a run, you can.
#1. Dress properly
#2. Proper footwear and traction devices.
From Yaktraks to grippers to hobnails or sheetmetal screws to Microspikes to running snowshoes....the weather should not be an excuse.
If you're training for indoor track and need specific track work, then use an indoor track. Otherwise, get outdoors and don't be a wimp.
|
|
|
|
Post by SI on Jan 4, 2010 19:27:28 GMT -5
The risk of injury means you better not run cross country either. You might turn an ankle.
|
|
gwig
Full Member
Posts: 125
|
Post by gwig on Jan 4, 2010 22:31:14 GMT -5
The risk of injury means you better not cross country either. You might turn an ankle. hah, very true |
|
|
|
Post by HHH on Jan 5, 2010 0:30:12 GMT -5
I'm sorry...but there are enough good traction device options out there that using the excuse of slippery roads is a cop out. You can get a far superior and more specific workout with the proper footwear and traction device outdoors in the winter than on a treadmill. Treadmills can be good for certain types of workouts (ie. longer uphill workouts for mountain runners) or even not bad for tempo runs to focus on constant pacing. However, if you what to get out for a run, you can. #1. Dress properly #2. Proper footwear and traction devices. From Yaktraks to grippers to hobnails or sheetmetal screws to Microspikes to running snowshoes....the weather should not be an excuse. If you're training for indoor track and need specific track work, then use an indoor track. Otherwise, get outdoors and don't be a wimp. Hey Spaff, where do you live? I think there comes a point when the long, dark, cold and slippery conditions like we have out in the Praries can get to you. Most of you guys have no idea what it's like to live and train in MB/SK or AB through the winter. You can call us wimps all you want but until you have actually spent a few winters here, you really don't have any idea what it's like. I used to think the way you do and the first winter I was back from Europe I never trained inside. Same for the 2nd winter, but it was tougher. Last winter was even tougher and I found i needed to get inside for a few workouts/runs a week just to keep my sanity. This winter it's been super cold and very snowy here again in Edmonton. I'm sick of it and it's killing my motivation. Bottom line: If the choice is between not running or running on a treadmill, do the run on the treadmill. To hell what anyone else thinks of you. Any running is better than no running. And if that makes you a wimp in the eyes of all these harcore 'real' runners, so be it. My 2 cents anyways. |
|
|
|
Post by SI on Jan 5, 2010 8:11:46 GMT -5
Personally, I am not calling anyone a wimp but to say that anyone who enjoys venturing outside on a wintry day is risking life and limb is just as ridiculous. Keep your eyes open, dress properly and go have some fun. A bunch of years ago, I went for a 10 miler on a cold windy day in WNY on a day they canceled school because of the COLD. Give me a break.
|
|
|
|
Post by spaff on Jan 5, 2010 9:10:51 GMT -5
HHH...Yes, the 'wimp' comment may have been a little harsh, but I think you nailed it when you referred to 'choice' and 'motivation' being factors. If you want to run outside all winter there is absolutely nothing to stop you. I've run everyday through some pretty tough conditions too and the only time I've felt compelled to hit the treadmill is for a specific session where it's beneficial to the type of race I'm training for Certainly not because it's 'too cold, too snowy, or too slippery'. You can choose to go indoors if you like, but it should not be thought of as a necessity and a matter of not being able to run otherwise. BTW... Since you asked, I live in Eastern Ontario. No we don't have as many cold days each winter as you, but get our share. I had some great runs in spikes during the ice storm here where hydro was out for days on end and the roads and trails were skating rinks. PS. RR sells grippers and yaktraks if you need a pair  |
|
|
|
Post by saskatchewan on Jan 5, 2010 9:34:40 GMT -5
Personally, I am not calling anyone a wimp but to say that anyone who enjoys venturing outside on a wintry day is risking life and limb is just as ridiculous. Keep your eyes open, dress properly and go have some fun. A bunch of years ago, I went for a 10 miler on a cold windy day in WNY on a day they canceled school because of the COLD. Give me a break. i don't recall anyone saying that "anyone who enjoys venturing outside on a wintry day is risking life and limb"? |
|
|
|
Post by saskatchewan on Jan 5, 2010 9:35:53 GMT -5
I'm sorry...but there are enough good traction device options out there that using the excuse of slippery roads is a cop out. You can get a far superior and more specific workout with the proper footwear and traction device outdoors in the winter than on a treadmill. Treadmills can be good for certain types of workouts (ie. longer uphill workouts for mountain runners) or even not bad for tempo runs to focus on constant pacing. However, if you what to get out for a run, you can. #1. Dress properly #2. Proper footwear and traction devices. From Yaktraks to grippers to hobnails or sheetmetal screws to Microspikes to running snowshoes....the weather should not be an excuse. If you're training for indoor track and need specific track work, then use an indoor track. Otherwise, get outdoors and don't be a wimp. Hey Spaff, where do you live? I think there comes a point when the long, dark, cold and slippery conditions like we have out in the Praries can get to you. Most of you guys have no idea what it's like to live and train in MB/SK or AB through the winter. You can call us wimps all you want but until you have actually spent a few winters here, you really don't have any idea what it's like. I used to think the way you do and the first winter I was back from Europe I never trained inside. Same for the 2nd winter, but it was tougher. Last winter was even tougher and I found i needed to get inside for a few workouts/runs a week just to keep my sanity. This winter it's been super cold and very snowy here again in Edmonton. I'm sick of it and it's killing my motivation. Bottom line: If the choice is between not running or running on a treadmill, do the run on the treadmill. To hell what anyone else thinks of you. Any running is better than no running. And if that makes you a wimp in the eyes of all these harcore 'real' runners, so be it. My 2 cents anyways. Well said, HHH. |
|
|
|
Post by SI on Jan 5, 2010 9:39:05 GMT -5
Personally, I am not calling anyone a wimp but to say that anyone who enjoys venturing outside on a wintry day is risking life and limb is just as ridiculous. Keep your eyes open, dress properly and go have some fun. A bunch of years ago, I went for a 10 miler on a cold windy day in WNY on a day they canceled school because of the COLD. Give me a break. i don't recall anyone saying that "anyone who enjoys venturing outside on a wintry day is risking life and limb"? Huh? a broken leg that ruins your running career or a broken back from being hit by a car doesnt exactly help your cause either...though you might live to tell the tale. |
|
|
|
Post by saskatchewan on Jan 5, 2010 17:01:08 GMT -5
SI, my point is that i don't think posters like prefontainelives are suggesting people should never run outdoors in the winter or that if they do, they will inevitably 'break their back'.
I don't understand why some posters think running indoors or on a treadmill is less 'tough' then running outdoors.
As i posted previously, Simon used to train on a treadmill a lot during the winter when he lived here in Regina and i would never think he was less of a runner for doing that.
I'm happy for you that you like running in rough winter conditions. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm also happy that others choose to run indoors or on a treadmill if they like.
I'm just not sure why the indoor/treadmill running seems to bug some posters so much.
I admit it; I'm a wimp because i bought a treadmill.
|
|
F.T
Full Member
Posts: 293
|
Post by F.T on Jan 5, 2010 19:12:26 GMT -5
What dosn't kill you can only make you stronger. So if you don't die, go for it. Isnt that a christina aguilera song? |
|
gwig
Full Member
Posts: 125
|
Post by gwig on Jan 5, 2010 19:15:57 GMT -5
What dosn't kill you can only make you stronger. So if you don't die, go for it. Isnt that a christina aguilera song? lmao, I was thinking that it was kinda like kanye west, stronger |
|
|
|
Post by ronb on Jan 5, 2010 20:46:19 GMT -5
I may be wrong, but I believe the goal is to run faster, not to act tougher...
So if that includes running indoors, or on a treadmill, running in the pool, swimming, cross-country skiing, riding a bike, or elliptical, or rowing machines, or circuit training, or whatever, that is all good if it works for the individual athlete and their program...
It can't be a bad thing to get your heart rate up, and increase the volume of training, and stay away from injuries. Of course, the specificity of running over the ground will cut in at some point, and needs to be respected, but within the context of the athlete running faster at the right time, and no other context is relevant, imo.
|
|
