eeen
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by eeen on Dec 14, 2008 10:22:51 GMT -5
I was just wondering what your limit is in terms of temperature for running outside. Where do you draw the line between being tough by running outside and don't be a retard by running outside cause it's so cold.
It's -30 with a -45 windchill here in Regina right now, and I guess I'm headed to the treadmill for my long run cause I think it would be suicidal running 1h30 in this weather!
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Post by Young Pratticus on Dec 14, 2008 10:55:28 GMT -5
I'd risk it as I find 20min on the treadmill while watching tv pretty boring. Fortunately, it's been a long time since I've had to run in weather like that.
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cerruty
Full Member
"Great things take time, Impossible things take a little bit longer."
Posts: 258
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Post by cerruty on Dec 14, 2008 11:14:57 GMT -5
I would almost always go outside. The only thing that worries me is protecting the upper pants area. Multiple layers seems to keep the hands, legs, arms, chest and neck warm enough but somehow the bitter cold always seems to seap through to my little training partner (if you know what I mean).
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Post by journeyman on Dec 14, 2008 11:55:05 GMT -5
Worst ever was about -40 in Fredericton, climbing the hill to FHS for indoor practice. I thought, halfway up, hmm, if I keep going, I might not make it, but if I turn back, I might not make it either...but I made it.
Iain you should come home to Montreal it's a balmy -3 with ice-covered sidewalks... I assume you are coming home eventually. Sunday long run next weekend?
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lefty
Full Member
Posts: 157
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Post by lefty on Dec 14, 2008 12:44:19 GMT -5
Yesterday I did my first cold run of the year.
The night before it had dropped from a nice warm -5 to -20, and the wind was HOWLING.
Being the retard that I am, I headed out the door in the morning with my -5 gear on. Needless to say I cut my loop short to 20 minutes and made back just in time to avoid losing my little training partner (and my fingers).
I decided to wait until the wind had died down before trying again. It took until 7:00 that evening. I went out prepared this time: facemask, mitts, and about three layers of running tights and long undies under my pants to retain warmth in my critical area.
It was a good run, except that the wind picked up again and my eyelashes partially froze together!
Also some of the streets were pretty slick, I felt like I was doing 2-steps-forward-1-step-back
on every little uphill.
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Post by HHH on Dec 14, 2008 12:52:34 GMT -5
I've been back in Edmonton now for over 2 years and haven't traded an outdoor run for the treadmill yet. I worked out last year at -45C with the windchill. I am a total wimp when it comes to the cold but I would rather kick myself in the face repeatedly then run on a treadmill. If you dress for it, you can do it comfortably. The Running Room has some great cold weather gear, I don't think anyone in the business does it better. The girl that designs the product is here in Edmonton so it really does get tested in some of the harshest running conditions in the country. The cold weather wind pro boxer shorts with the wind paneling on the front will protect your little training partner.
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Post by spartan on Dec 14, 2008 14:00:14 GMT -5
Check out what cross country skiers wear.
Briefs with wind proof pocket.
Wind proof front on pants and top (layers as required under)
Bella Clava to cover exposed skin (but must allow proper opening for breathing so you don't frost and fog)
A thin multi use neck tube that you can pull up over the face is also ]handy.
No weather is too cold to run or ski! This will work in Siberia and in Canada! For some treadmills are not a consideration.
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Post by jhunsworth on Dec 14, 2008 15:11:26 GMT -5
Unless it's blizzarding out, I will always go outside. Running in the cold in the winter leads to extreme mental toughness in the summer outdoor racing season. Today it was -31 with a windchill of -44 (according to the weather network) here in Saskatoon, but I toughed it out because it will make me stronger in the end. I like toeing the line and knowing the guy next to me hasn't run workouts in -45 weather.  |
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Post by crossrunner7 on Dec 14, 2008 15:19:58 GMT -5
Well, I live in Timmins and it gets pretty cold outside, like all of this week was like -30 , I ran about twice this week and it wasn't to bad you just have to be prepared. I usually wear an under armour long sleeve with a sweat shirt and a jacket on the top and I wear some running tights on the bottom and if its cold enough I'll wear some long underwear. The only problem I have is the face because I don't have a face mask or anything, just have an old neck warmer that pretty much sufficates me when I put it on. My limit though is probably -40 to about -45.
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Post by lambert on Dec 14, 2008 16:12:53 GMT -5
All this talk of running in the cold reminded me of a fellow in Edmonton who is well known for running in weather down to -20 without a shirt on. He's in his 80s and runs with what looks like oven mitts on. It's quite a sight.
I'm certainly no where near as tough as this guy.
This guy has a great outlook on running. I managed to find a portion of an article about him.
--------------------------
[From The Edmonton Journal Archives]
Chi Ping's tips
Edmonton Journal
Monday, January 26, 2004
Page: C6
Section: Body & Health
Byline: Chris Zdeb
Dateline: EDMONTON
Source: The Edmonton Journal
Copyright is held by the Edmonton Journal
-------------------------
When Chi Ping Chan goes out jogging people who don't know him sometimes call the police. They see an elderly, bare chested man jogging in minus 18 degree weather and they worry about him.
Some pull over and ask him if they can give him a lift, which Chi (pronounced Chee) Ping always refuses. He enjoys jogging, and he enjoys good health -- they are one and the same, he says.
Since moving from Hong Kong almost 20 years ago, the 83-year-old man has become a familiar sight on the sidewalks of Riverbend. He jogs slowly, back slightly hunched, head slightly down and always with a smile.
Depending on the weather, he wears a knitted hat or three, two to six layers of mitts -- some knitted by his wife Chan, a couple pairs of socks under his white and blue Nike Air sneakers and pants, but no shirt, no coat.
Area resident Helma Voth says she'd be bundled from head to toe driving to work some winter mornings and would just shudder seeing Chi Ping without even a shirt. When she saw a recent picture of him in The Journal jogging shirtless in an icy rain, it rekindled her interest in knowing why he dresses that way.
Chi Ping explains he doesn't wear a shirt or coat most of the time because he gets too hot and can't finish his eight-kilometre run. When the temperature or wind chill factor drops to minus 21, he will wear a shirt, he says.
...
"Exercise is important to stay healthy and strong," Chi Ping says. When I'm strong I can do anything. I don't have to go to the doctor. I am happy."
He says he wishes everybody could experience the benefits of exercise this way.
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Post by HHH on Dec 14, 2008 17:52:24 GMT -5
All this talk of running in the cold reminded me of a fellow in Edmonton who is well known for running in weather down to -20 without a shirt on. He's in his 80s and runs with what looks like oven mitts on. It's quite a sight. I'm certainly no where near as tough as this guy. This guy has a great outlook on running. I managed to find a portion of an article about him. -------------------------- [From The Edmonton Journal Archives] Chi Ping's tips Edmonton Journal Monday, January 26, 2004 Page: C6 Section: Body & Health Byline: Chris Zdeb Dateline: EDMONTON Source: The Edmonton Journal Copyright is held by the Edmonton Journal ------------------------- When Chi Ping Chan goes out jogging people who don't know him sometimes call the police. They see an elderly, bare chested man jogging in minus 18 degree weather and they worry about him. Some pull over and ask him if they can give him a lift, which Chi (pronounced Chee) Ping always refuses. He enjoys jogging, and he enjoys good health -- they are one and the same, he says. Since moving from Hong Kong almost 20 years ago, the 83-year-old man has become a familiar sight on the sidewalks of Riverbend. He jogs slowly, back slightly hunched, head slightly down and always with a smile. Depending on the weather, he wears a knitted hat or three, two to six layers of mitts -- some knitted by his wife Chan, a couple pairs of socks under his white and blue Nike Air sneakers and pants, but no shirt, no coat. Area resident Helma Voth says she'd be bundled from head to toe driving to work some winter mornings and would just shudder seeing Chi Ping without even a shirt. When she saw a recent picture of him in The Journal jogging shirtless in an icy rain, it rekindled her interest in knowing why he dresses that way. Chi Ping explains he doesn't wear a shirt or coat most of the time because he gets too hot and can't finish his eight-kilometre run. When the temperature or wind chill factor drops to minus 21, he will wear a shirt, he says. ... "Exercise is important to stay healthy and strong," Chi Ping says. When I'm strong I can do anything. I don't have to go to the doctor. I am happy." He says he wishes everybody could experience the benefits of exercise this way. I used to live in the same neighborhood as this guy. Mad as a hatter. Part of his outfit includes these huge mitts that look like oven mitts. He's nuts. |
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Post by beanster on Dec 15, 2008 8:31:51 GMT -5
Cross Country Ski!!!! Much better exercise keeps your core and upper body toned no impact either....I would do long skis in the winter with my school team then intervals on the indoor track and all this kept me in decent shape
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Post by spaff on Dec 15, 2008 8:58:03 GMT -5
It's never too cold not to run outdoors.
The key is to dress properly to be warm enough, but not sweat in the winter. It's when you sweat that you can really run into trouble. People who sweat heavily are either wearing poor running gear that doesn't breathe properly or not wearing the appropriate amount/layers of gear based on their effort level for the run.
Hitting the treadmill or bailing out of a run because of weather is never necessary. Get the right gear, wear the right footwear and you can be out there everyday!
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Post by pq on Dec 15, 2008 9:43:12 GMT -5
Just correcting spaff a bit, haha: Hitting the treadmill or bailing out of a run because of weather is ALMOST never necessary. I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE the treadmill, and the ONLY way you'll get me on one is with a gun to my head, or if I HAVE to use one t recover properly from an injury. I've run in winter conditions nearly everywhere in Canada, including a lot of places where it gets pretty damn cold: Edmonton; Flin Flon, Manitoba; Inuvik, Iqaluit, Yellowknife, a whole raft of places in Nunavut and NWT (Alert, Cambridge Bay, Hall Beach, Kugaaruk, Kugluktuk, Qikiqtarjuaq, Pangnirtung, and a few more I've forgotten), Saglek and Goose Bay, Labrador, as well as the more standard "southern" cold spots (Ottawa, North Bay, Timmins, Sault Ste. Marie). Plus 3.5 years in Winnipeg. There's almost no combination of cold and wind that you can't dress for, provided you have enough of the right layers, plus good mitts, hat, scarf (or something else to cover the face) etc. And of course, a wind proof layer of some sort to protect and preserve the livelihood of your little training partner (thanks, BTW, for that expression, I'd never heard it and it made me smile - I'll re-use it in conversation, haha). You can also run in most snow conditions. There have been blizzards where I was 100% sure I was the only fool out on the roads, and the only vehicles dumb enough to leave the driveway were snowplows. There's nothing like the feeling of invincibility you get from a run like that, knowing for certain that your competition is taking the day off. But the one thing you can't run in is thick ice after an extended bout of freezing rain or a flash freeze after a melt. I suppose you COULD run in those conditions with those strap on gizmos for your shoes, but that's where I draw the line and stay indoors. But a day like that becomes an unplanned day off, and NOT a day on the damn dreadmill. I suppose I should add, in the spirit of full disclosure, that I don't much enjoy running in conditions like this morning, with 1-3 inches of slush and random puddles of unknown depth. You wind up running with your feet squeaking from the water sloshing out on every step, and you damn feet get a fresh ice bath at random intervals. But we do it anyway, because we're Canadian and we can. haha |
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Post by mim244 on Dec 15, 2008 10:46:06 GMT -5
Haha, haven't got used to the wonderful prairie winters yet Fyfe?
I have agree with what pretty much everyone has been saying. In my own humble opinion, I would take 60 minutes of Chinese torture tests over 60 minutes of treadmilling. I absolutely despise doing runs in the confinements of a gym, where you're basking in a bubble of sweat and heat, and need to endure the monotony of working out on a spinning belt.
As long as you dress for the occassion (which not only means keeping warm, but also dry), I've found that there's no limit to the temperatures people can run in. The coldest winter spells we've experienced in Saskatchewan in the past couple years usually drop the mercury to somewhere in the -40s, then -50s with windchill. By layering your hands, head, and "friend" properly, even long runs in this can feel comfortable.
It's invigorating doing these runs along the trails when things are so cold the world just seems to stop. Plus I need my beautiful outdoors and changing surroundings when I run, which could never be found in any gym or on any treadmill.
The only thing that I don't like about winter is when there's a heavy dump of snow and city crews are slow to clear roads and walkways. I find it basically impossible to have a decent run in more than 4-5 inches of fresh snow when you don't even know where the paths you're running on are. Which I guess brings up another question, anybody tried or know of any decent running snowshoes?
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Post by coachj on Dec 15, 2008 10:55:20 GMT -5
stone cojones are needed to run Alert! what chutzpah!!
LOL
Great post pq
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Post by spaff on Dec 15, 2008 10:57:25 GMT -5
pq! You changed my quote. That's dirty! I stand behind my ORIGINAL quote.... Hitting the treadmill or bailing out of a run because of weather is never necessary. I wasn't going to mention this, but I've run in some pretty nasty weather as well and have not taken a day off running in almost 19 years. As you yourself mention, there are various gadgets you can strap to your shoes for grip on icy surfaces. I personally prefer to use sheet metal screws screwed into the bottom of my shoes. The lip around the screw provides great traction on ice. It's one thing to say you don't WANT to run because of the weather and another thing to say you CAN'T run because of the weather.  |
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Post by spaff on Dec 15, 2008 11:02:27 GMT -5
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Post by SNIDER on Dec 15, 2008 15:57:26 GMT -5
"I've run in winter conditions nearly everywhere in Canada, including a lot of places where it gets pretty damn cold: Edmonton; Flin Flon, Manitoba; Inuvik, Iqaluit, Yellowknife, a whole raft of places in Nunavut and NWT (Alert, Cambridge Bay, Hall Beach, Kugaaruk, Kugluktuk, Qikiqtarjuaq, Pangnirtung, and a few more I've forgotten), Saglek and Goose Bay, Labrador, as well as the more standard "southern" cold spots (Ottawa, North Bay, Timmins, Sault Ste. Marie). Plus 3.5 years in Winnipeg." -PQ
PQ:
You ran in Qikiqtarjuaq and Hall beach? The only time I have been on a treadmill is when I worked there the last two summers. But it wasn't to protect me from the cold. My boss made me because of the bears. Thats crazy if you ran outside during bear season although i think i was going crazy on the treadmill. And I did sneak out once in a while at night with a friend who drove behind me while i did a workout.
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lefty
Full Member
Posts: 157
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Post by lefty on Dec 15, 2008 17:46:59 GMT -5
I can understand the hate of the "dreadmill" from the point of view who is mostly in love with the outdoor/scenery/wind-in-your-face aspect of running, but as one who is mostly in love with the movements and feelings of running, the feeling of the legs turning over, the footstrike, etc., I don't mind hitting the treadmill in the gym on occassion.
The social atmosphere isn't bad either if youknowwuimsayin... scantily clad women eh eh... I'll tell you one thing they don't dress like that to go to the gym for no reason...
Although even in the harshest weather I'll opt for outdoors nine times out of ten.
On an aside, I was telling a buddy of mine (former runner) about this thread today, and he told me a funny story about his training days in Manitoba. Apparently he had measured out an approximate quarter-mile loop... get this... on the ice of a small lake near his house.
He would take a ratty old pair of track spikes and do intervals on his 400m ice loop!
He said his neighbours would look on in awe, wonering how in the world he wasn't slipping all over the place (not knowing he was wearing spikes).
He called it his "Ice Training Phase".
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Post by pq on Dec 15, 2008 18:03:12 GMT -5
PQ: You ran in Qikiqtarjuaq and Hall beach? ... The only time I have been on a treadmill is when I worked there the last two summers. But it wasn't to protect me from the cold. My boss made me because of the bears. Yes indeedy I did. In Hall Beach I wasn't as concerned because the area is fairly built up and there are places to run inside if you see a bear (for those who don't know, it's polar bears we're talking about in th eastern arctic - the bear hazard transitions to the big brown Grizzly variety as you move west). In Qikiqtarjuaq I was a little more concerned, but what are you going to do? If I were there for several weeks, I wouldn't run without a radio or without talking someone into following me on an ATV with a gun. Maybe organize group runs with an escort. But I was there on a two day visit the one time I ran there and didn't worry so much for a one off thing. Why were you at those two sites? Did you work on the DEW Line Clean Up? I managed that project for a couple of years (2000-2002) which is part of the reason I've been to a lot of those places. I may know some people you know, although I've been off the project a while now. |
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Post by littleman on Dec 15, 2008 18:28:34 GMT -5
He would take a ratty old pair of track spikes and do intervals on his 400m ice loop!
[/quote]
That's funny
I actually did that the other day but just for a couple of strides.
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Post by SNIDER on Dec 16, 2008 0:20:57 GMT -5
Ya PQ, i was at hall beach in 2007 with Environmental Sciences Group (ESG). Then I was at DYE M for 2008. Great summers (except for the training). I was able to run outside for the most part at Hall beach (when the fog came in, it got real sketchy, I kept on looking out for things to climb like the towers just in case). When bear season came I sucked it up and went on the treadmill.
Dye main was eventfull... ended up going through two treadmills. Kind of dishartening knowing that behind the white wall that I was staring at for countless hours were great white mountains earning to be climbed. Dispite the troubles with training, I think I'm really going to miss it up there.
Who were you with when you went up there?
Anyway, back to the post:
i will never run on a treadmill again, unless it was for injury reasons. It is so easy to keep warm. Tights, then windpants over top. Cover all skin. Always start into the wind; so you won't sweat on the way out. Its better to be sweating on the way home and not vice versa. I kind of like it when icicles form on my eyelashes/wiskers. Makes it more fun.
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Post by pq on Dec 16, 2008 9:09:56 GMT -5
Who were you with when you went up there? I had overall responsibility for the project as DND's project manager. I was employed by Defence Construction Canada, but reported to DND's Director General Environment. When I left (my wife was transferred to Nova Scotia) they replaced me with a military project manager. Last I heard it was Lieutenant Colonel Dave Widdows, but that may have changed, I don't know. Actually, on that trip we made the tactical error of bringing an Environment Canada enforcement officer along for the ride, and he wound up writing us (me and the Minister of Defence) an Inspector's Direction ordering us to clean up a couple of things at Qikiqtarjuaq and Cape Dyer immediately, even though both sites were scheduled for their main clean up efforts within a year or two at the time. It wound up costing maybe $3-400,000 of unnecessary taxpayers' dollars to get equipment and people to the sites to deal with relatively minor issues out of sequence, and it had a profound impact on scheduling for the remaining sites. ---------------------- To bring this back onto the main topic, I believe this goddamn thread jinxed me! On this morning's run I took a sharp turn on the sidewalk and wound up on my ass, having slipped on some black ice. I believe I may have broken a bone in my left hand. Goddamn this thread to hell!  Injury update - it's only a flesh wound. X-ray shows no fractures, so I'll live to run another day. Funny part of the story, if only to me.... I actually ran to this hospital this morning with a radiologist. Who knew I'd be back six hours later - in radiology of all places, in part because a radiologist dragged me out for a morning run on icey sidewalks. I asked the x-ray technician if she knew (insert-name-of-radiologist-here) and she had no idea who I was talking about. Maybe he's just been PRETENDING to be a doctor, haha. |
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Post by tbone86 on Dec 16, 2008 10:15:17 GMT -5
I think the message here is that if you don't run outside, you're a huge pussy.
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Post by mim244 on Dec 16, 2008 23:14:43 GMT -5
Haha, agreed. Real runners run outside.
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Post by SI on Dec 17, 2008 6:24:51 GMT -5
I don't understand the question.
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lefty
Full Member
Posts: 157
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Post by lefty on Dec 18, 2008 21:35:57 GMT -5
Just curious:
What, if anything, do people do about the loss of traction that comes with running on packed snow?
I have a 7 mile loop that I've covered in 40' at the fastest and 53'30" at the slowest in dry conditions.
Today I ran it for the first time since it started snowing, and the entire loop was packed snow. I ran it at a decent tempo effort, but it took me 55 minutes, due to the poor traction.
I noticed it especially when I started cranking up the pace; I felt like I was spinning out slightly on each stride.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone corrects for this effect in some way, or even just had some funny little anecdotes about the poor traction that comes with running on snow or ice.
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Post by pq on Dec 18, 2008 21:39:57 GMT -5
I try not to worry about pace at all when footing is bad. If you have to do some kind of tempo work, just go by feel and ignore the watch. Nothing you can do about it... sometimes the snow slows you down 15-20s/mile, sometimes a minute or more.
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Post by mim244 on Dec 18, 2008 23:22:17 GMT -5
This gets back to the only thing i dislike about winter: not the temperature but if anything the footing.
Something that might help, which we sell like hotcakes at our running specialty shop, are Get-a-Grips ($20) and Yak-Traks ($45), both of which are lightweight strap-on shoe picks. People really praise these things, and its a good investment when you consider what you're getting: injury free groin/hip flexors and aweful runs turned into good runs in poor slippery conditions.
But yes, when the traction is really dreadful, I take it for what it is, turn off the watch and try to make the best out of a crappy situation.
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