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Post by spaff on Jan 13, 2010 15:20:51 GMT -5
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Post by oldster on Jan 13, 2010 15:34:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the refresher, hutch. I seemed to recall you'd reviewed some research on this subject.
And, SI, I actually agree to some extent about the value of the "character-building" effects of outdoor winter running-- at least for young athletes. I think younger runners, who typically aren't doing the kinds of volume that mature runners are-- or a least shouldn't be-- can stand a little "toughness apprenticeship" in the form of sucking it up and facing the elements now and then, notwithstanding the somewhat compromised training. I know getting out there on a cold day used to make me feel pretty "hardcore" when I was a teenager, and that feeling is never a bad thing in younger athletes, provided it doesn't come at too great a cost physically. Serious older athletes, however, will have already proved their mettle by simply having stuck with it, and taken their training to the next level. They therefore just need to do what's necessary to get the work done in the most efficient way possible.
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Post by SI on Jan 13, 2010 16:15:02 GMT -5
I find the last 2 miles (drives me nuts all treadmills are imperial) to be the most taxing mentally. I'm constantly watching the odometer and doing the math in my head. Try covering it with a towel. |
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Post by saskatchewan on Jan 13, 2010 16:46:06 GMT -5
And just for the record, I don't think you can totally discount to zero "building character" notwithstanding oldster's and ronb's comments to the contrary. I obviously don't have ronb's or oldster's coaching abilities or oldster's talent but isn't a large part of running mental? Isn't it possible that getting yourself outside in bad conditions builds mental toughness that can help your running? I don't know. Just asking. I am guessing ahutch can't point us to any studies so it would be just anecdotal evidence. SI, for the record I agree with your comments regarding winter running building mental toughness. This winter I have done all but two of my runs outside (including a great 12km tempo on the coldest morning of the year; -37C). However, i would also state that doing the same workout on a treadmill can require equal or more mental toughness. The occasional 2hr treadmill run can be mental hell, and therefore useful prep for longer races. My point has always been simply that there are times where training outdoors in winter (at least in Regina) can severely compromise the quality of a workout, and increase the chance of injury, and it is at these times that i advocate using indoor or treadmill running rather then trying to 'tough it out' outside. |
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Post by kmaser on Jan 13, 2010 18:14:20 GMT -5
I think that there is no doubt that cold weather does build character and there is a point where min temps do make it hard to do good quality. My question is at what point is it too cold for doing quality outside. I think after -25C it's pretty hard to run
any intervals and when it starts to get -30C it's pretty hard to enjoy the 2 hour runs. I can remember doing long runs at 6:30/mile pace or trying to do sub 5 reps outdoors. But for me I just hated treadmills. It feels better to get outside and at least make the effort. If not we used indoors longer reps for the 1500/5k stuff and for xc trials in Vic in the 80's. I guess it's more of a personal choice. Peter Moore used to like training on the treadmill and used it to get ready for World Xc's with good results back in the day I see some familiar names on here. AHutch
were you at Sherbrooke in 82. RonB is that the you in Vic.
Cheers
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Post by ronb on Jan 14, 2010 18:52:06 GMT -5
Yes, Kim - That would be me. Good to see you online.
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Post by SI on Jan 14, 2010 19:25:57 GMT -5
Guessing he thinks AHutch is Gary Hutchinson(not correct). Hang around for a bit Kim and it won't take you long to figure out who most people are.
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Post by kmaser on Jan 14, 2010 19:35:57 GMT -5
Cool - Good website - I"ll pop in once and a while.
Cheers
Kim
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Post by spaff on Jan 25, 2010 19:52:11 GMT -5
Snowshoe running machine (ie. elliptical) or the real thing... ...which looks like more fun? ;D  |
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Post by oldster on Jan 25, 2010 20:10:36 GMT -5
Spaff, this actually does look like a lot of fun. One of my guys (in addition to the guy seen in this clip) tried a snowshoe race this past week up north and reported that he would certainly do it again.
Could this eventually become our answer to the European X-C season? (Maybe not, but it looks more fun than winter road racing!).
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Post by ronb on Jan 25, 2010 21:18:05 GMT -5
Spaff, this actually does look like a lot of fun. One of my guys (in addition to the guy seen in this clip) tried a snowshoe race this past week up north and reported that he would certainly do it again. Could this eventually become our answer to the European X-C season? (Maybe not, but it looks more fun than winter road racing!). Of course, that might vary, depending on which part of our vast and wonderful Nation that you live in. I have heard that road-racing in January/February in some parts of Canada is very comfortable in shorts and singlets, and even without gloves and toques, eh... |
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Post by spaff on Jan 25, 2010 21:34:11 GMT -5
Spaff, this actually does look like a lot of fun. One of my guys (in addition to the guy seen in this clip) tried a snowshoe race this past week up north and reported that he would certainly do it again. Could this eventually become our answer to the European X-C season? (Maybe not, but it looks more fun than winter road racing!). We certainly lucked out with the weather considering all the rain of the past few days. It was a great day at Frontenac Park with good conditions and some strong performances. Still a push to get snowshoe running into the winter Olympics. There is the World Invitational Snowshoe Race being held at the same time as the Vancouver Olympics to try and raise awareness. |
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Post by spaff on Jan 25, 2010 21:38:03 GMT -5
One of my guys (in addition to the guy seen in this clip) tried a snowshoe race this past week up north and reported that he would certainly do it again. Which northern race? Didn't know there were others on this weekend. |
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Post by oldster on Jan 25, 2010 22:54:55 GMT -5
Up near Huntsville, I assume, since my guy lives there. It was actually put on by a rival snowshoe dealer!
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Post by spaff on Jan 26, 2010 8:55:56 GMT -5
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Post by runner93 on Jan 26, 2010 13:01:14 GMT -5
My apologies if this has already been discussed. What are people's thoughts on using the treadmill as an alternative to combat injuries? Is it a lot softer and easier on the knees then the road/sidewalk?
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Post by saskatchewan on Jan 26, 2010 13:44:15 GMT -5
My apologies if this has already been discussed. What are people's thoughts on using the treadmill as an alternative to combat injuries? Is it a lot softer and easier on the knees then the road/sidewalk? My experience has been that treadmill running is significantly easier on the legs then running on concrete sidewalks, as there is a fair amount of give in a treadmill. The recent 2010 USA 1/2 marathon champ noted that he does a significant portion of his training on a treadmill (runs up to 20 miles) in the winter to avoid bad winter weather (bad footing, temp, etc) in Minnesota. You are likely to hear many divergent views on this issue here. |
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Post by pq on Jan 26, 2010 14:42:06 GMT -5
What are people's thoughts on using the treadmill as an alternative to combat injuries? Is it a lot softer and easier on the knees then the road/sidewalk? This is absolutely the only way to get me onto a treadmill willingly. Well, almost.... Recently I was working at a mining camp in the Chilean Andes at 3800+ metres, and only managed to "run" four times in maybe 25 days at altitude (broken out over 4 visits). On one of my trips out of camp I was at a nice hotel in a mining town. There are stray dogs EVERY-freakin-WHERE in this town. I'll admit I took the easy way out and ran a few miles on the treadmill instead of braving the dogs. I'm not proud to admit it, but there I've admitted it anyway.  I just HATE HATE HATE running on the treadmill and won't do it except a a last resort. Injury recovery is one of those last resports. |
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Post by SI on Feb 13, 2010 19:49:47 GMT -5
Serious older athletes, however, will have already proved their mettle by simply having stuck with it, and taken their training to the next level. They therefore just need to do what's necessary to get the work done in the most efficient way possible. "the satisfaction of finishing a run in really nasty weather" Even a guy like Bruce Deacon can feel good about a run on a lousy day(this is a good piece, by the way, and dead on-why many run-just for the sake of it-AC q standards are totally and completely irrelevant and neither motivate nor deter): bruce-deacon-thelongroad.blogspot.com/ |
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Post by runner869 on Feb 13, 2010 22:22:53 GMT -5
I pretty much only go with the mill when trying out new running shoes
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Post by spaff on Mar 5, 2010 9:01:58 GMT -5
Now you can do every run on a treadmill, even while enjoying the great outdoors ... |
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Post by tundra on Mar 5, 2010 9:47:56 GMT -5
That's perfect. Go for a treadmill run outside and cruise that thing right into the drive through at your local McDonalds!
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