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Post by oldster on Nov 29, 2009 17:08:03 GMT -5
If there was ever a thread-worthy Canadian performance in the history of this medium it was Simon B's run yesterday. This was the largest margin of victory in living memory (in MY living memory, anyway). The course certainly was running lightning fast, but to have dispatched a guy like Eric Gillis by 70 seconds was just outrageous, and easily the equivalent of a solo sub-28min track performance. Always hugely talented, he may be just now in the process of taking his running to the next level. Let's hope he sustains the momentum into March, and beyond.
And does anyone have a link to Simon's blog (assuming he has one) so that we can get a look inside his recent training?
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Post by Chris Moulton on Nov 29, 2009 17:25:44 GMT -5
Steve, thanks for the thread. I have spent countless hours on that course and run hundreds of miles on it. I never really thought I would see the day someone would run under 29 minutes on it and to do it after a decent amount of rain this week is even more impressive. I think we are going to see some very impressive 10k times this year from our athletes.
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Post by ctrotter21 on Nov 29, 2009 17:31:30 GMT -5
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Post by emantsal on Nov 29, 2009 17:37:42 GMT -5
What are some recent results from Bairu?
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Post by HHH on Nov 29, 2009 17:55:56 GMT -5
If there was ever a thread-worthy Canadian performance in the history of this medium it was Simon B's run yesterday. This was the largest margin of victory in living memory (in MY living memory, anyway). The course certainly was running lightning fast, but to have dispatched a guy like Eric Gillis by 70 seconds was just outrageous, and easily the equivalent of a solo sub-28min track performance. Always hugely talented, he may be just now in the process of taking his running to the next level. Let's hope he sustains the momentum into March, and beyond. And does anyone have a link to Simon's blog (assuming he has one) so that we can get a look inside his recent training? Agree, that run is amazing and definitely something worth getting excited about! Someone mentioned in another thread he was aiming for a top 10 finish at world cross? That would be very impressive and I hope he does it! |
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Post by journeyman on Nov 29, 2009 21:11:12 GMT -5
This was the largest margin of victory in living memory (in MY living memory, anyway). Since 1893? |
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Rory
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Post by Rory on Nov 29, 2009 21:27:30 GMT -5
That whole portland group is just killing it... Ritz and Teg have had insane improvements too since heading out there to train with Salazar. Hopefully we see more terrific Bairu performances in the coming months, top ten at world xc would be legendary!
it would also be awesome to see him shred pbs outdoors like his training partners did last year!
bairu, ritz, teg, rupp, webb, solinski, jager, goucher, any other big names?
sounds like an American version of guelph haha
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Post by oldster on Nov 29, 2009 21:29:35 GMT -5
This was the largest margin of victory in living memory (in MY living memory, anyway). Since 1893? Well gosh-durnit, since Nineteen-aught-three anyway (cain't remember much afore that) Gold! Gold! Gold, I tells ya! |
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Post by bystander on Nov 29, 2009 22:33:40 GMT -5
That whole portland group is just killing it... Ritz and Teg have had insane improvements too since heading out there to train with Salazar. Hopefully we see more terrific Bairu performances in the coming months, top ten at world xc would be legendary! it would also be awesome to see him shred pbs outdoors like his training partners did last year! bairu, ritz, teg, rupp, webb, solinski, jager, goucher, any other big names? sounds like an American version of guelph haha Rory; When did Schumaker stop coaching? Since 4 of the seven listed are Jerry's guys from Wisco (Bairu, Teg, Solinsky and Jager) the credit goes to him, not Salazar. Al certainly hasn't "developed" Ritz either - others have spent years with him (Wetmore and Hudson) - even Al admits he was just sharpening an already fit guy (the marathon training) who had stayed healthy enough recently to get to this point. Having said that, Salazar has done a great job with Rupp (to this point anyway), and Ritz in the past few months. Webb hasn't done anything yet in this program - hopefully he will, but anything less than World/Olympic medals and/or World records isn't going to be seen as "development". |
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Rory
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Post by Rory on Nov 29, 2009 22:59:11 GMT -5
ya sorry i realize that Schumaker is coaching there also and that all of those athletes moving there were fit before. I was talking about a few of the member's successes since making the move to portland.
I was more intending to give Al credit for fostering the training environment and putting together that group of guys.
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Post by gnardog on Nov 29, 2009 23:45:17 GMT -5
Maybe a little love for Dr. Steve and the talent recognition and development going on in Sask would be in order as well?
This was a phenomenal run from a fine athlete. He kinda disappeared from my view for a while and now I am looking forward to that Half in Houston, Word Cross (McCloy was eighth once, right? haha) and whatever marathon he hits up next.
All the best
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Post by Steller on Nov 30, 2009 7:33:21 GMT -5
among the many things that drive performance, Jerry's group has now started to periodize in stints of altitude training since going to Portland.
All I know is that when I was talking to Maryam Jamal's husband/coach Tereq (also the coach of Yousef Kamal) and a few years ago, and when I told him that Teg had never been to altitude in his life and had still managed to medal, Tereq was absolutely shocked and amazed that someone could get to that level of performance.
On the other hand, all the African's probably over-play the direct physiological effects of altitude-- obviously there is a serious training camp effect as well.
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pato
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Post by pato on Nov 30, 2009 8:39:56 GMT -5
(McCloy was eighth once, right? haha) 6th I think. |
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Post by SI on Nov 30, 2009 10:15:23 GMT -5
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Post by oldster on Nov 30, 2009 10:56:58 GMT -5
Speaking of Bairu's goal of coming top 10 (which I believe is a realistic one, considering how fit he is, and how strong he is on the dirt), here's an interesting debating point (and one I actually briefly took up very late Saturday evening with Dylan and SB himself): Is it harder to finish top 10 at WXC now than when McCloy did it back in 86? I argued that it perhaps was, but only slightly so (by, like 4-5 places at most). When Paul did it, there was full Kenyan participation, led by one of the best ever, John Ngugi. Granted, there were no Ethiopians or Kenyans from Qatar or Uganda. But, there were far more Europeans who were as good relative to the then world 10k record as any most of these other athletes (with the exception of Bekele, of course, who is in a class by himself in any era). And, there were even some very good Americans-- e.g. Pat Porter, who was a 27:40 guys and very good on the dirt-- in the mix. (There are some POTENTIALLY good American X-C guys in the mix today, but they have yet to really show up in force at worlds). Finally, I think WXC was actually a bigger deal for the top runners in the world back in 86 than it has been since the advent of the split event back in the 90s, making it a tougher race relatively speaking (e.g. Steve Monaghetti finished 17th in the long course as a master and would have called 17th a good day back in the 80s, even though he finished higher once or twice). Thus, when you add up all the factors, I think Paul's 8th in '86 would still stack up very reasonably with a top 10 by Simon in 2010. What the younger guys of today can't see is that the Africans are being made to look much better than they are by the extreme decline of the depth of performance in other countries, and in Europe in particular. (The decline of the Brits alone is significant, and breathtaking.) The youngsters are therefore under the mistaken impression that the Africans have swamped the sport and buried the non-Africans, rather than that the rest of the world has simply stopped progressing and more or less turned the sport over to them.
Let's take McCloy himself as an example: When he finished 8th, he was running 27:54 for 10k (about a month after his WXC result). The world record at the time was only 27:12. Paul wasn't simply taking advantage of a weaker field back then; he was was only 40 secs off the world record in the 10k, and was an amazing X-C runner. It was thus hardly surprising that he would have finished so high at WXC. As good as Simon B. is, his 10k P.B. is only a few seconds better than Paul's from OVER 20 YEARS AGO! And he is a good X-C runner, but anyone who ever raced Paul knows he was just as good, and probably better relative to his track and road ability. To repeat: its not so much that the Africans are so much better now. What has changed is the failure to progress of the non-African world, which has opened the door to complete African domination, making success in the sport for non-African seem much more difficult than it really is.
I still admit that it is harder to make top 10 at WXC now than it was in '86; but, only slightly so. If Simon does it, he will have surpassed Paul's achievement, but not by nearly as much as we might think. (And, as an aside, Paul had not yet turned 23 when he finished 8th. And, he finished 17th the year before that. In both years, he was still running in the CIS. Ponder that for a moment, CIS people!)
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Post by twofeet on Nov 30, 2009 11:30:43 GMT -5
Interesting assessment, oldster. I was wondering the same thing and also decided that it would be slightly harder, based on the fact that the WR is that much faster now and that there are more 10k runners who can do low 27s.
Great to see Bairu and Schaaf in such stellar shape.
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Post by journeyman on Nov 30, 2009 13:10:33 GMT -5
A few random thoughts:
In 1999 Europeans finished 3rd and 4th in long course.
I think that in the top ten, there's probably not much difference, but if you were to go deeper, top 20, maybe, then it would be harder now. Why? The "transfered" Africans replace the 80s top Europeans in the top tier, but the current top Europeans would correspond to 80s depth Europeans, maybe. Were there "depth Africans" then? Probably someone who is not supposed to be writing a paper on malicious prosecution could look that up...
I think top ten in the world in any race is a great accomplishment. Good for him for setting the bar high.
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Post by scrappydoo on Nov 30, 2009 13:29:17 GMT -5
Top 10 at World Cross would be great for Bairu but his illustrious career will be overshadowed by the one sad reality - he never won OFSAA gold...
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pmac
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Post by pmac on Nov 30, 2009 13:49:04 GMT -5
Top 10 at World Cross would be great for Bairu but his illustrious career will be overshadowed by the one sad reality - he never won OFSAA gold... Both him and Donovan Bailey have that strike against them. It doesn't matter what excuses anyone provides for these two athletes- the facts remain- no hardware from the O-Show. |
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Post by SI on Nov 30, 2009 14:45:04 GMT -5
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pmac
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Post by pmac on Nov 30, 2009 18:36:09 GMT -5
But it's obviously the only sport that matters if you do. Seriously though, I'm aware Bairu couldn't (that was the joke), as for Bailey, you'll have to tell me SI. I knew he played basketball in high school but I'm unaware what success his team experienced. The point I was trying to make for some of those less aware of the history of the sport is that an Olympic gold medallist didn't win OFSAA, but instead had to settle for a victory in Atlanta with the WR. How unfortunate. Of course, this could backfire completely, with all OFSAA medallists proclaiming dominance over Donovan Bailey. |
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Post by fastrunner155 on Nov 30, 2009 19:13:30 GMT -5
The question "what Canadian Olympic medallists from Ontario have competed at OFSAA but never won a gold medal?" has been part of OFSAA trivia for a # of years. The answer is Donovan Bailey and Molly Killingbeck. Donovan has said he came in 5th and I'm not sure how Molly did. Donovan was up against Atlee Mahorn, amongst others, and Molly had Charmaine Crooks to contend with as well as other (future) national team members. OFSAA was extremely competitive back then!
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coy
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Post by coy on Nov 30, 2009 19:21:58 GMT -5
Molly had Charmaine Crooks to contend with as well as other (future) national team members. OFSAA was extremely competitive back then! Thank goodness Molly found a "means" to improve. |
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madm
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Post by madm on Nov 30, 2009 19:25:21 GMT -5
just when i figured this run couldnt get more impressive, word on the street is that simon actually stopped in the middle of one of the laps to pull up his compression socks
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hoey
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Post by hoey on Dec 1, 2009 1:04:12 GMT -5
Was he wearing trainers?
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mpd
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Post by mpd on Dec 1, 2009 10:19:21 GMT -5
I was standing at the start of each lap and here are his splits:
7:11
7:12
7:12
7:12
fairly incredible.
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Post by lukesteer93 on Dec 1, 2009 11:49:01 GMT -5
he mustve surged for a second or two on the first lap after he pulled up his sock, thinking he was off pace haha
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AndrePaul
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The hills on the way over here were pretty brutal
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Post by AndrePaul on Dec 1, 2009 13:52:14 GMT -5
The question "what Canadian Olympic medallists from Ontario have competed at OFSAA but never won a gold medal?" has been part of OFSAA trivia for a # of years. The answer is Donovan Bailey and Molly Killingbeck. Donovan has said he came in 5th and I'm not sure how Molly did. Donovan was up against Atlee Mahorn, amongst others, and Molly had Charmaine Crooks to contend with as well as other (future) national team members. OFSAA was extremely competitive back then! Don't forget about Whitfield.  |
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Chafe
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Post by Chafe on Dec 1, 2009 14:26:09 GMT -5
The question "what Canadian Olympic medallists from Ontario have competed at OFSAA but never won a gold medal?" has been part of OFSAA trivia for a # of years. The answer is Donovan Bailey and Molly Killingbeck. Donovan has said he came in 5th and I'm not sure how Molly did. Donovan was up against Atlee Mahorn, amongst others, and Molly had Charmaine Crooks to contend with as well as other (future) national team members. OFSAA was extremely competitive back then! Don't forget about Whitfield. I don't think that counts, Tri isn't athletics so his gold would be no different than someone who won an Olympic gold in aquatics but never won OFSAA athletics. Back on topic, Bairu looked like he was out for a stroll in the woods coming up that final hill. It was a very impressive run. |
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pre
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Post by pre on Dec 1, 2009 23:55:00 GMT -5
am i the only one that realizes that there's a very legit chance that bairu won't even make it to worlds with the new rules?
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