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Post by HHH on Dec 2, 2009 0:35:28 GMT -5
am i the only one that realizes that there's a very legit chance that bairu won't even make it to worlds with the new rules? Nope, I'm with you. |
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Post by lambert on Dec 2, 2009 7:56:00 GMT -5
am i the only one that realizes that there's a very legit chance that bairu won't even make it to worlds with the new rules? Nope, I'm with you. Rumour is that there was an unwritten rule that Bairu gets to go to Worlds if he wants to. |
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Post by journeyman on Dec 2, 2009 9:53:41 GMT -5
am i the only one that realizes that there's a very legit chance that bairu won't even make it to worlds with the new rules? Nope, I'm with you. If he races and wins at NACAC he goes regardless of team results. |
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Post by slamer on Dec 4, 2009 2:20:39 GMT -5
If he races and wins at NACAC he goes regardless of team results. Let's just hope he doesn't get edged out by a sudden appearance of Ritz (let's just say) at NACAC. |
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Post by journeyman on Dec 4, 2009 12:04:09 GMT -5
If he thinks he can be top 10 at World Cross, he can beat Ritz. Would be a good race, for sure.
But, it seems elsewhere I read there would be no senior team. Does he go on his own?
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Post by oldster on Dec 4, 2009 14:41:25 GMT -5
I think the IAAF provides funding for one athlete from every nation, but will AC make this available to Simon, and sign off on his entry?
As for his qualifying via a win at NACAC, considering that NACAC is being held in the heat of coastal South America in North American winter, nothing is at all certain here. Having lived and trained there for a little while, I can tell you that no North American will be a great, or even good, bet to win under the conditions that will inevitably be faced. If the Brazilians send a top team, one of them is very likely to win. There may even be so-called no-name Colombians who can give the North Americans a run under those conditions.
And there will be no senior men's team this year (likely no women's team either). The selection criteria this year were, as many of us recognized immediately, a fiasco, and their effect may well be what many of us predicted: the complete demise of our senior participation at world X-C-- a process that began the year AC decided to resort permanently to the "self-funding" option for this team, but, which will be blamed on the athletes failing to "step up".
However, as with the death of a chronically ill loved one, this inevitable ending does not come without a certain sense of relief. Perhaps now we can move on to build some kind of alternative outlet for serious senior level X-C competitors, such as perhaps a rugby/soccer-style European tour (say, 2-3 good races in a 2 week period, privately sponsored and hosted by some European clubs). Since this wouldn't be an IAAF member thing, perhaps AC would permit the selection of a "national team" out of Nats X-C for these purposes. Defenders of AC always accuse its critics of having "no concrete solutions, only criticisms", but the only solutions to the X-C problem it has ever provided are "try harder, and bring your check book". And their determination to retain control over X-C without really supporting it (assuming they do intend to hang onto this control into the future) actually stands in the way of the implementation of creative solutions, should we be able to come up with them. Suggestion to AC: Give X-C back to the people who really love it and see its value in developing distance running in this country!
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Post by Chris Moulton on Dec 4, 2009 14:52:57 GMT -5
Just a quick point of clarification on the Americas meet, although run together, they will be scored separately. So we will only be competing against other NACAC teams for funding. If Simon runs and his healthy I think Ritz is the only guy in NACAC who could give him a run and I would say there is no chance of Dathan running NACAC.
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Post by oldster on Dec 4, 2009 14:54:07 GMT -5
P.S. BTW, did anyone else notice how thin AC representation was on the ground in Guelph this year? There wasn't even anyone to address the audience or pass out awards at the ceremony on Saturday evening, just a little banner hanging from the desk, reminding everyone to whom this championship still belongs.
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oasis
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Post by oasis on Dec 4, 2009 15:31:10 GMT -5
just some thoughts about the entry fees for National XC, the masters entry was $50 (not sure about the other races) and this was a 100% increase from the past 3 years, I for one have no problem paying that amount for the entry as long as AC (or who ever the governing body would be) is using some of the proceeds to fund teams for World XC, consider there was 150+ runners in the masters race at $50 a pop ($7500 total) should be some money given to the qualifers for world XC, don't get me wrong the host club(s) should benefit some as well but also the development of Canadian distance running to, eg. sending teams to world XC
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Post by benjamin on Dec 4, 2009 17:20:27 GMT -5
If he thinks he can be top 10 at World Cross, he can beat Ritz. Would be a good race, for sure. But, it seems elsewhere I read there would be no senior team. Does he go on his own? Ritz said, I think on his blog, that he's aiming for the individual win and at least a medal. While I'm sure Simon is in excellent shape, Ritz is the fastest North American ever over 5000m, has a 27:22(?) from the Olympic 10000m, and has a world junior XC bronze under his belt and still thinks he can go faster (see his blog). Simon is probably what I would consider a step or two below that with his performances thus far. That's not to say that he's not looking at a huge breakthrough this year, because I think he is. But I really doubt he can beat Ritz right now. |
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oasis
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Post by oasis on Dec 4, 2009 17:21:19 GMT -5
according to the results there were 680 runners in the races at National XC (not including the community race), $34000 roughly was generated, obviously don't have all the necessary info to calculate the gross profit from Nationals but they should be some monies that could be used to fund World XC teams
did a quick search on Air Canada for flights from Toronto to Warsaw (Poland) during the dates of world XC, The return price is $912(including tax and surcharges), have to think I better price could be negotiated with Air Canada for a group rate, rough calculations:
flight - $700 (guessing group rate)
accommodations - $212 (search on expedia hotel room for 2 w/ breakfast for 6 nights)
food - $300 (6days and breakfast is covered at hotel room)
my estimation is $1200 per athlete, using 6 per team is $28,800
realize there is more expenses like maybe rental bus and cost for officials (coaches, physio person), so maybe $35,000 at most, again pure speculation on my part but would be interesting to see the financial breakdown according to AC, someone correct me if I am wrong but didn't I read that they want to charge each athlete around $3000, to me that is quite high and with some searching around the costs should be quite less and not staying in some hole for a hotel either
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mpd
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Post by mpd on Dec 4, 2009 17:57:07 GMT -5
If he thinks he can be top 10 at World Cross, he can beat Ritz. Would be a good race, for sure. But, it seems elsewhere I read there would be no senior team. Does he go on his own? Ritz said, I think on his blog, that he's aiming for the individual win and at least a medal. While I'm sure Simon is in excellent shape, Ritz is the fastest North American ever over 5000m, has a 27:22(?) from the Olympic 10000m, and has a world junior XC bronze under his belt and still thinks he can go faster (see his blog). Simon is probably what I would consider a step or two below that with his performances thus far. That's not to say that he's not looking at a huge breakthrough this year, because I think he is. But I really doubt he can beat Ritz right now. "For the World XC Championships I want to medal and even be in contention to win. The World XC Champs is the most competitive race on the planet. You have nine men from each of the east african countries that have dominated that event for years. It is really the place that few non-africans have gone since the domination began by those countries. I think that would be the ultimate stamp of being one of the best runners in the world and cross country is something that I am very good at to begin with. I now have the confidence to go with them and battle it out." |
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pmac
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Post by pmac on Dec 4, 2009 18:19:51 GMT -5
I would also put my money of Ritz finishing ahead of Simon in cross country. There's no doubt Simon is a fantastic cross country runner, but Ritz, even during his struggles, has been a monster on the grass. Sure, it was a long time ago, but this is a guy who finished third at world junior XC, and with his recent performances on both the track and the road he may finally be tapping into the wealth of talent he possesses. More importantly he, like Simon, is starting to believe he can run with the best in the world (and they both really should be!) which may make all the difference at this point.
Bottom line is, I'd love to see them both in the top 10. But I give Dathan the nod in regards to who actually does better.
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Post by oldster on Dec 4, 2009 19:16:15 GMT -5
according to the results there were 680 runners in the races at National XC (not including the community race), $34000 roughly was generated, obviously don't have all the necessary info to calculate the gross profit from Nationals but they should be some monies that could be used to fund World XC teams did a quick search on Air Canada for flights from Toronto to Warsaw (Poland) during the dates of world XC, The return price is $912(including tax and surcharges), have to think I better price could be negotiated with Air Canada for a group rate, rough calculations: flight - $700 (guessing group rate) accommodations - $212 (search on expedia hotel room for 2 w/ breakfast for 6 nights) food - $300 (6days and breakfast is covered at hotel room) my estimation is $1200 per athlete, using 6 per team is $28,800 realize there is more expenses like maybe rental bus and cost for officials (coaches, physio person), so maybe $35,000 at most, again pure speculation on my part but would be interesting to see the financial breakdown according to AC, someone correct me if I am wrong but didn't I read that they want to charge each athlete around $3000, to me that is quite high and with some searching around the costs should be quite less and not staying in some hole for a hotel either You'd think it would be that simple, wouldn't you oasis? And it would-- in a right-side-up world in which the purpose of the sport was to send the best national representatives into international competition, and in which the national federation made it's best effort to do just that. But, in the upside-down world we actually inhabit, it is always far more complicated; mysteries attend this process that are far beyond normal comprehension, or so it would seem. |
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oasis
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Post by oasis on Dec 4, 2009 19:43:59 GMT -5
hi oldster, how are you, been following your blog post's and they are always a good read, is the elite team idea still a possiblilty realize funding is always the major issue with that
as AC members are we privy to their yearly economic reports? be interesting to see them, they (being AC) are a strange bunch aren't they, we need a Jim Ballsili (sp?, the guy that wanted to move the Coyotes(NHL) to Hamilton) type guy that loves running
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Post by skizzy on Dec 4, 2009 19:48:43 GMT -5
X-country is a staple for athetics and distance. This "MUST" be a funded and central focus for excelling and track development.
Why was not KS, Nathan B et al here, we need our track guys on the distance fall program or quite frankly we will fail in developing a world champ (and that should be our focus).
It's nice to see more corporate sponshorship from die hard distance fans, but let us start putting the pressure on AC to do more.
I'm willing to step up, anyone care to join me?
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pmac
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Post by pmac on Dec 4, 2009 21:03:18 GMT -5
we need a Jim Ballsili (sp?, the guy that wanted to move the Coyotes(NHL) to Hamilton) type guy that loves running My first thought, as a joke, was John Stanton, the founder of the Running Room. Then I thought about what Matt is doing out there in Alberta with the support of the Running Room, and I started thinking about it seriously. Has there been any attempt to get the Running Room to fund our National teams? I know they've funded squads on a smaller scale. Cast aside your personal gripes about the Gallowalking (or rather Stantonwalking) he promotes and think about it- if we get a guy like him on board we may just have something. He could promote that the Running Room is funding potential Olympians, throw their names around to sell merchandise and what not, while at the same time raising awareness about the elites in this country. Money and exposure...anyway, I'm living in a dream world. Just thought I'd throw it out there. |
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Catts
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Post by Catts on Dec 4, 2009 21:39:51 GMT -5
I know John and the RR had a role in the world T&F champs, world half champs, and the ITU events coming to Edmonton (how big of a role, I don't know). we need a Jim Ballsili (sp?, the guy that wanted to move the Coyotes(NHL) to Hamilton) type guy that loves running My first thought, as a joke, was John Stanton, the founder of the Running Room. Then I thought about what Matt is doing out there in Alberta with the support of the Running Room, and I started thinking about it seriously. Has there been any attempt to get the Running Room to fund our National teams? I know they've funded squads on a smaller scale. Cast aside your personal gripes about the Gallowalking (or rather Stantonwalking) he promotes and think about it- if we get a guy like him on board we may just have something. He could promote that the Running Room is funding potential Olympians, throw their names around to sell merchandise and what not, while at the same time raising awareness about the elites in this country. Money and exposure...anyway, I'm living in a dream world. Just thought I'd throw it out there. |
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Post by Steve Weiler on Dec 5, 2009 0:19:20 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but if Canadian distance runners cannot fly down to coastal South America in the middle of a North American winter and beat the top american, then maybe we shouldn't be competing at World XC. It is important that we only send the very best to represent our country internationally. I assume everyone here is already aware of the similar criteria for 2011 Worlds and, I can only assume, 2012 Olympics that are on the AC website:
OVERVIEW
Over the last few years, Athletics Canada has worked to build a comprehensive National Athletics program focused on high performance results. This year that trend will continue with participation at the IAAF World Championships in Athletics dependant on success at the regional level. In 2011, Jamaica will play host to a regional championships including all of the Americas, although it will also be scored as a NACAC competition. Daegu, Korea hosts the IAAF World Championships in Athletics and AC looks to send only individuals and relay teams that are ready to take on the World.
OBJECTIVES for the IAAF World Championships in Athletics
To enter world class individuals and relay teams in the 2011 IAAF World Championships in Athletics capable of finishing in the top ½ of the field.
To enter individual Americas Champions capable of finishing in the top ½ of the field
To provide international exposure to current and future Senior High Performance athletes
SELECTION PROCESS for the IAAF World Championships in Athletics
+NOTE - Individuals and Relay Teams are not guaranteed to attend the IAAF World Championships in Athletics
Athletes MUST compete at the Americas Championships August 6-11, 2011 in Jamaica
Relay Teams MUST finish in the top 2 among NACAC countries at the Americas Championship in order to be selectable
Teams must be deemed capable of finishing in the top ½ of teams at the World Championship
Individuals MUST finish in the top 1 among NACAC athletes at the Americas Championships in order to be selectable
RATIONALE
In keeping with Athletics Canada’s High Performance mandate and to ensure that a standard of excellence is expected and achievable by all teams and individuals representing Canada at international events, athlete MUST have a minimum standard to achieve. Winning the Americas Championships is seen as the first step and an achievable team goal. Teams and individuals will be selected to the World Championships in Athletics based on their readiness to compete at the world level.
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hoey
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Post by hoey on Dec 5, 2009 3:57:58 GMT -5
OBJECTIVES for the IAAF World Championships in Athletics To enter world class individuals and relay teams in the 2011 IAAF World Championships in Athletics capable of finishing in the top ½ of the field. I might be wrong, but at any competition of 2 or more individuals, there will always be individuals who do not finish in the top half of the field (barring ties). I don't understand the extreme elitism in the halls of Athletics Canada that has them believe that competing at a global championship and finishing in the back half of the field is a failure, and reflects badly on Canadian Athletics. The IAAF already has standards that reflect the high level of achievement deemed necessary to compete in a global championship - if every country followed suit and disregarded those guidelines to follow Canada's arrogant elitist idea of only sending athletes who are likely to finishing in the top half, the only runner on the starting line would be Kenesia Bekele. |
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mpd
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Post by mpd on Dec 5, 2009 8:19:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but if Canadian distance runners cannot fly down to coastal South America in the middle of a North American winter and beat the top american, then maybe we shouldn't be competing at World XC. It is important that we only send the very best to represent our country internationally. I assume everyone here is already aware of the similar criteria for 2011 Worlds and, I can only assume, 2012 Olympics that are on the AC website: OVERVIEW Over the last few years, Athletics Canada has worked to build a comprehensive National Athletics program focused on high performance results. This year that trend will continue with participation at the IAAF World Championships in Athletics dependant on success at the regional level. In 2011, Jamaica will play host to a regional championships including all of the Americas, although it will also be scored as a NACAC competition. Daegu, Korea hosts the IAAF World Championships in Athletics and AC looks to send only individuals and relay teams that are ready to take on the World. OBJECTIVES for the IAAF World Championships in Athletics To enter world class individuals and relay teams in the 2011 IAAF World Championships in Athletics capable of finishing in the top ½ of the field. To enter individual Americas Champions capable of finishing in the top ½ of the field To provide international exposure to current and future Senior High Performance athletes SELECTION PROCESS for the IAAF World Championships in Athletics +NOTE - Individuals and Relay Teams are not guaranteed to attend the IAAF World Championships in Athletics Athletes MUST compete at the Americas Championships August 6-11, 2011 in Jamaica Relay Teams MUST finish in the top 2 among NACAC countries at the Americas Championship in order to be selectable Teams must be deemed capable of finishing in the top ½ of teams at the World Championship Individuals MUST finish in the top 1 among NACAC athletes at the Americas Championships in order to be selectable RATIONALE In keeping with Athletics Canada’s High Performance mandate and to ensure that a standard of excellence is expected and achievable by all teams and individuals representing Canada at international events, athlete MUST have a minimum standard to achieve. Winning the Americas Championships is seen as the first step and an achievable team goal. Teams and individuals will be selected to the World Championships in Athletics based on their readiness to compete at the world level. Please tell me I'm missing something here! Athletes must finish in the top 1? So if 3 people make A standard and come top 3-4 at nationals there is the potential that none of them will get to race... Best case is only 1 athlete in each event gets to go??? |
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Post by Steve Weiler on Dec 5, 2009 8:49:39 GMT -5
The document is fictitious.
I took the National XC Team document and essentially replaced "World XC Championships" with "IAAF Championships in Athletics" to point out what it would look like if other event groups were held to the same standards/criteria XC athletes such as Bairu are currently under to qualify for Worlds.
Re: Mike's response - if we have 3 XC athletes who are at a comparable level to Bairu and come top 3-4 at Nationals, there is the potential that none of them get to race at World XC under the current National XC Team criteria.
The RATIONALE is interesting to consider. We are being told that an achievable goal for our XC athletes is to be the best team in the Americas. Are other athletics event groups being told the same and as such if there are 2+ faster sprint relay teams in NACAC should we stop sending relay teams to Worlds?
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Post by oldster on Dec 5, 2009 10:46:44 GMT -5
Nice one, Steve!
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