CIS Results?

[I-Ballz]

Who's got results?

Women done by now?

[boycey]

Guelph wins 57 U of T 2 144 Mac 3 147
Brown wins Carson 2 Mcclure 3

From Speed River Twitter: twitter.com/SpeedRiver

[I-Ballz]

Never mind...

Full women's results here:

sportstats.ca/

[runnerdude]

Mens results from Speed River's Twitter
Brunsting, Boorsma, wiebe, Weston, Brett, Pieterson, Cristie,

Gueph Wins with 30 points - 1,2,5,10,12

[im]

Anyone got team results? I keep getting virus warnings when i click on the sportstats link.

[boycey]

just ignore it. nothing bad's happened. But on that note...

Men Team Scoring

1. University of Guelph
1 2 5 11 12 (18) (48) = 31
BRUNSTING MATT, BOORSMA KYLE, BRETT ALLAN, WRAY NIGEL, PARROTT JOHN,
JACKSON ROBERT, KOZIARSKI ROBERT
2. University of Windsor
4 8 19 28 33 (53) (77) = 92
WESTON DAVE, KELLAR ADAM, AGUANNO ANDREW, WALTERS MATT, MEYER ALEX,
PIENE SVEIN, SINCLAIR MATT
3. St. Francis Xavier University
20 23 24 37 66 (81) (97) = 170
GERYCH DAVID, DOUBRAVSKY PETR, MCCARRON LEE, ADDISON BRENT, MACLEAN
JULIAN, MCGUIRE CONNOR, CORBIT JOHN
4. University of Regina
3 13 21 30 119 = 186
WIEBE KELLY, BAITON WYATT, WIG DALE, FYFE IAIN, BENJAMIN ERIC
5. University of Calgary
22 25 52 60 63 (72) (95) = 222
CLOUTIER MATTHEW, NICOL SCOTT, RUSSELL RYAN, DOROSZ SAM, POOTZ
SPENCER, SPENDIFF MATHEW, DELANGE OWEN
6. University of Alberta
16 31 45 62 71 (83) (84) = 225
WEIKUM JAMIE, LEBOEUF MAX, OSTAPOWICH JADEN, CARVER CODY, MOORE
HARRY, LAW GRAEME, LAUZON JOEL
7. Queen's University
17 39 50 56 65 (104) = 227
HULSE MATT, PATTERSON CLAY, POTVIN JOSHUA, HATHEWAY OLIVER,
NISHIYAMA MICHAEL, KLAUS ANDERS
8. University of Western Ontario
10 32 41 74 85 (87) (116) = 242
O'NEILL KYLE, HUFF RYAN, ARANGO DAVID, SMITH BRENT, STROKACH ALEXEY,
HODGE SIMON, SUDA MATT
9. McMaster University
15 44 57 59 68 (82) (99) = 243
ABBOTT LARRY, MCCURRY CORY, YORKE ANDREW, DOUGLAS ANDREW, REID
TAYLOR, GIBB ROB, LITTLE JONATHAN
10. Universit� de Sherbrooke
14 35 40 76 86 (96) (113) = 251
RACHEM BAGHDAD, POULIN CADOVIUS JAMES, BUZINGO FERDINAND, GAHUMGU
LEOPLOD, LAVOIE OLIVIER, DAY ALEXANDRE, DION TOMMY
11. Univeristy of Victoria
6 9 34 98 105 (118) = 252
PIETERSON MATT, MALLIE JOHANNES, CHILDS CLIFF, IRVINE KYLE,
CLOUTHIER JOSH, ROBERTSON KARL
12. University of Toronto
42 43 47 70 78 (103) = 280
PETTES TYLER, LAMBERT ADRIAN, DOUGLAS STEPHEN, MURRAY-LAWSON COLIN,
PAVELIC ANTUN, NICHOLL ANDREW
13. Dalhousie University
7 61 64 102 107 (110) (112) = 341
CHRISTIE RUSSELL, WILSON JASON, GORMAN DAN, VERE JUSTIN, HAYAMI
DOUGLAS, KIROS RYAN, COYLE JOSHUA
14. Universit� Laval
26 55 80 88 94 (122) = 343
MICHAUD DOMINIC, HAMELIN PATRICE, FOURNIER-DUFOUR JEAN-SIMON,
LAPIERRE MAXIME, BOUCHER NICOLAS, GAGNON ST-GEORGES DAVID
15. University of Manitoba
29 51 67 90 124 = 361
SHEPHERD COLIN, BELOF CHRIS, PENNER ADAM, SCHELLENBERG ANDREW,
REDPATH JASON
16. Laurier University
79 89 92 93 106 (114) (117) = 459
IKRAM SOAIB, IKRAM SHOAIB, FOX JORDAN, MEIDINGER BRENT, ROBERTSON
MATT, CAMERON BRETT, GARRIOCK ALEX
17. Concordia University
27 69 111 127 128 = 462
NOEL-HODGE RYAN, GIROUX SIMON-MALIK, GUEND SOFIANE, CORKUM LUCAS,
LAFOREST JEAN MARC
18. University of Saskatchewan
73 75 109 115 123 = 495
BOLDT ALYOSHA, GERARD STEPHANE, MARIN SAMIR, MAZURIK MATT, ELL
JOHNATHAN
19. Royal Military College
108 120 121 125 126 (129) (130) = 600
MARSHALL JOHN, HENDERSON ERIC, HAYES RICHARD, TRIVERS JACOB, SAUL
DONALD, BERNATCHEZ DAVID, WHEELER PATRICK



[qcu]

I'm surprised that 1:40 seperate the firts 15 guys. That's a lot! And 31 seconds between the 6th and the 7th place is also amazing...

[greener]

Some video coverage:

www.queenstelevision.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69:cis-cross-country-championships&catid=13

[henry25]

sweet coverage!

[alias]

Anyone else starting to get "worried" about the complete domination exhibited by the Ontario schools the last few years. 5 of the 6 team medals this year went to schools in the OUA and 17 of the AC spots went to individuals from those schools. Is this still just a trend? Or will things ever return to balance?

[rocknroll]

I think Guelph should have their own conference.

[alias]

Some might argue that they already do;)

[gnardog]

Not worried at all. I think there are some Western programs in the ascendant (average out the men's and women's team placings of Calgary and Alberta) that are evidence of some quality running out there, and of course there are still strong programs in the East (X, Dal).
I think the balance will always be a little upset in favour of Ontario owing to the population they can draw from, but these things do balance out. Personally I think Western coaches ought to be a little more proactive with recruiting (not to open this can of worms ie resources etc).
Also look to the Guelph example for how to run a good program, with the example of post-collegiate runners in the mix feeding the fire.
Practically speaking, these things even themselves out. A grade 12 kid running 9 minutes may start looking elsewhere (why not Lakehead?) where they can do some damage rather than Guelph where they can still do great things but may be swallowed up in the pack.
Rather than the dominance of Ontario, I would be concerned with the disappearance of Quebec. What's going on there? Very little impact on the standings from Quebec schools. I don't know the situation out there as well (I am in Alberta) but seem to recall there being much more in the way of quality running out of that province even five years ago.
All the best

[im]

How come they didn't add any hay barrels on the course like CIS 1999?

[blahblahblah]

It can't be helping the competitiveness of other schools and conferences in the CIS that Guelph gets to host National XC every single year. They basically get a better opportunity than anybody else to recruit the top juniors who may be looking to run for a CIS school. Sure, their program may not appeal to guys who are running 9:00 minutes for 3k in high school, since they may not make the team, but it will still appeal to studs who are running 8:30 in high school. If they can continue to attract one or two of these guys to their school each year, nobody's going to beat them. It's about time that Nationals went out West!

I wouldn't say that the "dominance of the OUA" was atypical to what you would expect any given year. They are usually stronger than other conferences but CANWEST put 4 women's teams in the top 7 and 4 men's teams in the top 11. No team podiums but I could see this change in the next few years. It was certainly a very weak year for Quebec though.

[blahblahblah]

After reading my last post, I feel I should add that I realize that Guelph's success is not strictly limited to their success at recruiting but also great coaching and a good training atmosphere. It's just a little frustrating that their program is so overwhelmingly dominant and I think it would be good for the CIS as a whole if it wasn't a foregone conclusion that a given team will walk away with the team title every year.

[journeyman]

A couple of thoughts.

1) Regina. 4th place with a 5th runner 119. ROY winner. Medalist. This is a team on the rise.

2) Quebec. It was not so much a weak year as a young year, and it was perhaps a weak race for some of the Quebec teams. The Laval women who were all-Canadians last year were back, but they did not have a good day. The Sherbrooke men started very quickly and faded, but still managed to hang on to a top ten spot. Basically you were noticing the absence of Genest and the Laval girls up front I think. Belanger did medal, though.

McGill women and Laval men have young teams. So does Concordia. I don't think there is cause for alarm, but maybe just a low ebb while for others they are at the top of their cycle. Check this out: Guelph had 1 E2, 1 E3, 3 E4 and 2 E5; Windsor had 3 E4, 2 E5 and 2 E2. Laval had 3R, 2 E2, E4 an E5; Concordia had 2 Rs (plus one R who didn't run), an E2 and 2 E3s, as well as an E1 who didn't run. On the women's side, McGill was entirely R, E2 and E3. Laval women are a little older, and Sherbrooke women are kind of split, with 2 R, 1 E2, 1E3 and 3 E4. Concordia had 1 E3, and the rest were R or E1.

3) OUA dominance? Of the 13 OUA runners in the top 30, only three were not from Guelph or Windsor. So it is maybe more of a team dominance than a conference dominance. Of the top 5 rookies, 3 were from CanWest, one from Q and one from OUA (but not from one of the top two schools). Surprisingly, with CIS in Ontario, only 8 full teams from OUA out of 19 schools.

This was easily the most competitive CIS race I've ever seen. Well done all.

[theking]

I feel like your rookie comment is a mute point as ofcourse the rookies would not be coming from the top schools in the oua as it would be very very hard for any rookie to make top 7 on a team like geulph I feel like saying that guelph and windsor are old teams can also be misleading without knowing who they have as a supporting cast

[blahblahblah]

Yes, but how many runners who are R to E2 does Guelph have who didn't even make their CIS roster but could have run as a team and still beat any of the Quebec teams? Most of these runners will be faster next year and will fill in the chasm left by the departure of Guelph's E5s. It's nice to have depth like that...

[journeyman]

Nov 16, 2009 12:03:04 GMT -5 theking said:

I feel like your rookie comment is a mute point as ofcourse the rookies would not be coming from the top schools in the oua as it would be very very hard for any rookie to make top 7 on a team like geulph I feel like saying that guelph and windsor are old teams can also be misleading without knowing who they have as a supporting cast

Nov 16, 2009 12:06:43 GMT -5 blahblahblah said:

Yes, but how many runners who are R to E2 does Guelph have who didn't even make their CIS roster but could have run as a team and still beat any of the Quebec teams? Most of these runners will be faster next year and will fill in the chasm left by the departure of Guelph's E5s. It's nice to have depth like that...

Both of these are good points, and depth is clearly a big part of the dominance of these teams. The question will be in 2-4 years if and when the other schools develop this crop, will they be able to run with the E4s and E5s from the OUA.

By the way, the term is "moot" point, and it means that there is no point in debating the particular issue. Actually the top 5 rookies would have made the Guelph team (top 48) and top 9 rookies would have made Windsor (top 77), so there is at least some reason to debate it.

I wonder if those rookies at top schools will develop less than those at mid-range schools, given less opportunity to compete? I doubt this is the case, but depending on the athlete, being the go-to person might inspire greater performances than chasing the pack, even if that pack is the best in the country.

[theking]

oh thanks for the language help, I always thought it was mute point as , it is not heard due to lack of relevance, and blah blah you make a good point aswell however i stand by my statement that although the guys that raced cis for these two teams are old, these teams would still have very decent full rookie teams or teams filled with E2 and r's

[yards]

Why the difference in women's distances? Any rationale?

Collegiate women run 5K at CIS
Juniors run 5K at Canadian Championships
Senior women run 7K at Canadian Championships
And collegiate women in the NCAA run 6K

[AndrePaul]

Nov 16, 2009 12:39:31 GMT -5 yards said:

Why the difference in women's distances? Any rationale?

Collegiate women run 5K at CIS
Juniors run 5K at Canadian Championships
Senior women run 7K at Canadian Championships
And collegiate women in the NCAA run 6K

Not really sure.....but what I am impressed with is the amount of depth in the women's field now in the CIS. One of the CI's races I ran in (I forget which year) but it was something like 90 seconds from 3rd -14th place.

[journeyman]

Nov 16, 2009 12:21:31 GMT -5 theking said:

oh thanks for the language help, I always thought it was mute point as , it is not heard due to lack of relevance, and blah blah you make a good point aswell however i stand by my statement that although the guys that raced cis for these two teams are old, these teams would still have very decent full rookie teams or teams filled with E2 and r's

Yes, I think it is a good point. It is hard to compare people who didn't run to those who did. We'll have to wait until the Quebec schools build up to E4 and E5s and then see what happens. I suspect it will take some very good veterans on any team to break the current Gryphon dynasty.

[journeyman]

Nov 16, 2009 12:39:31 GMT -5 yards said:

Why the difference in women's distances? Any rationale?

Collegiate women run 5K at CIS
Juniors run 5K at Canadian Championships
Senior women run 7K at Canadian Championships
And collegiate women in the NCAA run 6K

Rationale would be related to participation: ie if you made CIS XC 8k you would lose too many women in the jump from high school. We seem to lose numbers from CIS and junior to senior. Of course, men race 7k in high school and then jump to 10k in university so I don't really buy that argument. A "task force" has been raised at the CIS coaches level to investigate our place in the LTAD plan, and that will include a long look at the race distances, I'm sure.

[Gunner]

Following CIS XC for the first time this year (my daughter started university this year). I notice that womens teams finishing 6th, 7th and 14th at OUA ran at CIS. How does qualification for OUA schools work ?

[greener]

To attend CIS for XC there is no need for qualification. It is considered an Open Championship. A school is only required to be a member of the CIS for XC and to pay the entry fee. Having said that schools that place in the top 3 at OUA Championships receive some funds from the OUA to attend CIS.

[journeyman]

There is no official qualification for CIS. The race is open, and any school can send a team. Individual schools will decide whether their teams or certain individuals are going to be competitive or not. The CIS travel funding pool is distributed to the top teams in each conference based on the previous year's final results, and the location of the championships. So this year, for example, the top 3 CanWest teams, top 2 OUA teams, top AUS team and top 2 QSSF teams will be reimbursed for a portion of their travel. The top three individuals in each conference not on a funded team also qualify for travel pool funding. The host conference can not have more than two funded spots I believe (or can not have an "extra" spot--2 CanWest, 2 OUA, 1 Q and 1 A get it every time, the next two best team results are the "extra" spots).

Hope that helps!

[scobie]

As a very proud U of S Huskie Alumni it truly pains me to say this. But those inter-provincial rivals from the south probably deserve some recognition for what they have accomplished over the past two years. Congrates to entire Regina team for their hard earned accomplishments over the past two years. Two All-Canadians is a true accomplishment as well as a top 4 finish and ROY award. The team and the coaching staff have to be on the right path as this ship did not take very long to right itself once coach McMaster took over.

[oldster]

People are welcome to their arcane debates about whether the OUAA is pulling away from the rest of the CIS and how good its teams really are, or will be in a few years, but the elephant in the room is this: DST is simply the best coach in the Canadian university system by a good measure and on every front (organization, program development, recruiting, and overall clarity of vision). Let's recall that he built this program basically from scratch, and has even managed to expand it into the leading national senior distance club that it is (and which is now feeding-back into the university team in terms of the whole training environment it has created). Unless people can learn from and somehow begin to replicate what he has done down at that little farm school, Guelph's almost embarrassingly large gap over the rest of the programs in the system will only grow. Believe it or not, I think its real dominance has only just begun. A time is coming soon, if it hasn't already arrived, when the only serious Canadian choice for top Ontario kids (and, who knows, maybe kids from all over Canada) will be the U of G.