"We are more of a sprinting and throwing country"

[notcanadian]

This is the part where everyone says that they'll support a new organization with small monetary donations, ronb alludes to very powerful forces that are lining up behind him, people start throwing around awesome and unrealistic ideas, Sully points out that everyone is being unrealistic, people continue brainstorming in a completely useless fashion anyways, ronb chimes back in that he is getting emails from powerful people that will help the change happen, oldster gets into a pissing match with a couple people, the new organization gets a name (last time it was "CanRun"?), and then the thread fades off into history and nothing ever happens.

Groundhog Day!

[speedycreek]

I believe that the Speed River idea ia a good start. Good solid program and some promising athletes. Sully and Bairu have both represented Canada very well. I don't think they could have had the same success had they stayed in Canada. It takes a lot more than NTC or OTP programs to create gifted athletes. Although someone like Devon Kershaw showed it can be done with cross country skiingin Vancouver. It's an interesting thread and it's got some great ideas. RonB I've known since the "old days" and he has some good ideas. AC needs to be revamped. In reality we have some very good and promising distance athletes in this country. The only way to really get better is to let them compete
and make sure they have what it takes to let them do that.
Setting realistic standards and giving them a chance to compete
will produce better results. Just my 2 cents worth.

G'day

[oldster]

May 5, 2010 13:39:33 GMT -5 notcanadian said:

This is the part where everyone says that they'll support a new organization with small monetary donations, ronb alludes to very powerful forces that are lining up behind him, people start throwing around awesome and unrealistic ideas, Sully points out that everyone is being unrealistic, people continue brainstorming in a completely useless fashion anyways, ronb chimes back in that he is getting emails from powerful people that will help the change happen, oldster gets into a pissing match with a couple people, the new organization gets a name (last time it was "CanRun"?), and then the thread fades off into history and nothing ever happens.

Groundhog Day!

I like your style, notcanadian, although you're wrong about the inevitability of me getting into a pissing match with someone. Furthermore, guy who leads by reminding us all the he is "notcanadian", and therefore has no stake in any of this, what would lead you to have such familiarity with the course of these kinds of discussions in the first place?

D'oh! Damn you, notcanadian!

[ronb]

notcanadian,
Interesting analysis, but you missed one important step.
That is one where some of us try and get positive energy going on this topic, by building a thread based on some great ideas for the present and future of Canadian Distance Running,
and immediately someone else will come in and piss all over the thread. That's only happened about 3 or 4 times in recent memory, "eh"...

[ronb]

Also, in pointing out the success of the Speed River Project, it is absolutely true and Dave and the Guelph gang are doing a lot of things right. I know for a fact, as Dave is a very good buddy of mine, that some of his ideas and initiatives came from the couple of years he spent with us in Victoria. Dave attended the NCI at Uvic for one year, and then stayed and was coaching actively and successfully, alongside of Brent Fougner and myself. And then the Guelph job came up, and Dave wisely jumped on it, and is showing us all what is possible. Similar things were happening in the 1980's, with the UBC/Kajaks, SFU/Valley Royals, the UVIC/Vikes, and a number of other strong clubs across Canada. When I last worked for AC (1998), we were in the middle of developing a plan that would try and formalize relationships with about 9 such "nests" or "modules" across Canada to serve the needs of distance runners and coaches, from beginning levels, schools, Universities and Clubs, and on to Provincial, National and International Competition. It was part of the 20/20 vision, and had a lot of potential ---- still does actually. I think that's what we need to do, rather than adding a few carding points to locate at only 1 Centre in Canada. But what do I know?

[powerboy]

Nice touch Ron!Who'd have thought there would be naysayers!
Ironically I raised some points for discussion just a few weeks ago.
1) Some form of distance runners trust with practical and flexible parameters.
2) I suggested that a pledge of $1000 is not unreasonable from those of us who are of an age and income that such a sum is not backbreaking.Of course all donations would be welcome.
3) an annual 5k-10k run with the proceeds to the trust. Perhaps one in Ont and one in BC.

Fate is perhaps lending a hand as the death of our friend and collegue Terry Goodenough has acted as a springboard to create a fund in his name (or perhaps in conjunction with his name)
Initial response has been good.
Terry would be very supportive of a national initiative to fund distance runners.

There are obviously many wrinkles to iron out, but there will be a fund. I am willing to take on a significant role. Several of Terry's oldest friends and club mates will join me for sure.
Thus we know we will have some reasonable level of structure.
Ron, you or anyone else feel free to draft what you think should be in a mission statement.
Let us prove the naysayers wrong!

[speedycreek]

Terry was a great runner. Just thought you might find these results from the 80 XC World Champs worth a look. (Terry 76th)

1 37:01 Craig Virgin (1955.08.02) 24.220 USA
2 37:02 Hans-Jürgen Orthmann (1954.02.05) 26.033 FRG
3 37:05 Nick Rose (1951.12.30) 28.070 ENG
4 37:11 Léon Schots (1952.06.11) 27.272 BEL
5 37:20 John Robson (1957.01.31) 23.038 SCO
6 37:21 Aleksandr Antipov (1955.03.09) 25.000 URS
7 37:21 Leonid Moseyev (1952.10.21) 27.140 URS
8 37:21 Antonio Prieto (1958.01.11) 22.058 ESP
9 37:23 Steve Jones (1955.08.04) 24.218 WAL
10 37:25 Bernie Ford (1952.08.03) 27.219 ENG
11 37:27 Karel Lismont (1949.03.08) 31.001 BEL
12 37:28 Daniel Dillon (1957.06.25) 22.258 USA
13 37:31 El Hachami Abdenouz (1956.07.01) 23.252 ALG
14 37:33 Barry Smith (1953.04.16) 26.328 ENG
15 37:39 Thierry Watrice (1957.01.23) 23.046 FRA
16 37:42 Fernando Mamede (1951.11.01) 28.129 POR
17 37:44 Steve Kenyon (1951.09.16) 28.175 ENG
18 37:44 John Treacy (1957.06.04) 22.279 IRL
19 37:47 Nick Lees (1958.01.23) 22.046 ENG
20 37:48 Klaas Lok (1955.01.12) 25.057 NED
21 37:49 Alex Hagelsteens (1956.07.15) 23.238 BEL
22 37:51 José Luis Gonzalez (1957.12.08) 22.092 ESP
23 37:53 Kenneth Martin (1958.09.10) 21.181 USA
24 37:54 Dominique Coux (1950.01.06) 30.063 FRA
25 37:54 Alex Gonzalez (1951.03.16) 28.359 FRA
26 37:55 Carlos Lopes (1947.02.18) 33.020 POR
27 37:55 François Person (1953.08.07) 26.215 FRA
28 37:56 Valeriy Sapon (1956.11.10) 23.120 URS
29 37:57 Allister Hutton (1954.07.18) 25.235 SCO
30 37:59 José Sena (1955.07.13) 24.240 POR
31 38:00 Jim Brown (1952.09.13) 27.178 SCO
32 38:01 Mohamed Zaidi (1952.01.30) 28.039 TUN
33 38:06 Enn Sellik (1954.12.10) 25.090 URS
34 38:07 Michael Karst (1952.01.28) 28.041 FRG
35 38:08 Peter Butler (1958.02.15) 22.023 CAN
36 38:08 Steve Plasencia (1956.10.28) 23.133 USA
37 38:08 Graham Tuck (1950.10.22) 29.139 ENG
38 38:10 Eddy de Pauw (1960.06.08) 19.275 BEL
39 38:15 Radhouane Bouster (1954.12.02) 25.098 FRA
40 38:17 Hugh Jones (1955.11.01) 24.129 ENG
41 38:20 Luis Adsuara (1956.09.04) 23.187 ESP
42 38:22 Rachid Habchaoui (1950.07.04) 29.249 ALG
43 38:23 Don Clary (1957.07.29) 22.224 USA
44 38:24 Frank Grillaert (1946.10.22) 33.139 BEL
45 38:25 Pär Wallin (1955.03.06) 25.003 SWE
46 38:26 Lawrie Spence (1953.07.16) 26.237 SCO
47 38:26 Valeriy Abramov (1956.08.22) 23.200 URS
48 38:27 Mark Anderson (1958.07.04) 21.249 USA
49 38:27 Abdelmadjid Mada (1953.04.06) 26.338 ALG
50 38:28 Manfred Schoeneberg (1954.04.06) 25.338 FRG
51 38:28 Mick O'Shea (1954.09.16) 25.175 IRL
52 38:32 Eugenio Hernandez (1948.07.13) 31.240 ESP
53 38:33 David James (1957.11.02) 22.128 WAL
54 38:34 Philippe Daniel (1954.07.20) 25.233 FRA
55 38:37 Paul Williams (1956.08.07) 23.215 CAN
56 38:39 Santiago de la Parte (1948.08.18) 31.204 ESP
57 38:40 Roger de Vogel (1955.09.22) 24.169 BEL
58 38:41 John McLaughlin (1951.09.06) 28.185 NIR
59 38:42 Marco Marchei (1954.08.02) 25.220 ITA
60 38:43 Franco Ambrosioni (1951.08.17) 28.205 ITA
61 38:43 Lahcene Babaci (1957.05.04) 22.310 ALG
62 38:43 Roger Hackney (1957.09.02) 22.189 WAL
63 38:44 Hsu Liang (1955. . ) 24/25y CHN
64 38:45 Nick Brawn (1957.02.23) 23.015 ENG
65 38:45 Thomas Wessinghage (1952.02.22) 28.016 FRG
66 38:46 Lahcen El Hachmi (1953. . ) 26/27y MAR
67 38:47 Stig Roar Husby (1954.09.12) 25.179 NOR
68 38:47 Carlos Tavares (1953.08.03) 26.219 POR
69 38:48 Tapio Kantanen (1949.05.31) 30.283 FIN
70 38:48 Jacques Boxberger (1949.04.16) 30.328 FRA
71 38:49 Mohamed Naoumi (1954. . ) 25/26y MAR
72 38:50 Argimiro Gonzalez (1959.07.31) 20.222 ESP
73 38:51 John Graham (1956.06.18) 23.265 SCO
74 38:52 Øyvind Dahl (1951.05.12) 28.302 NOR
75 38:53 Ennio Panetti (1954.12.04) 25.096 ITA
76 38:56 Terry Goodenough (1957. . ) 22/23y CAN
77 39:00 Lubomir Tesacek (1957.02.05) 23.033 TCH
78 39:00 Greg Duhaime (1953.08.11) 26.211 CAN
79 39:01 Mohamed Salem (1952. . ) 27/28y ALG
80 39:01 Mehdi Aïdet (1953.11.03) 26.127 ALG
81 39:01 Wilhelm Maier (1948.09.12) 31.179 FRG
82 39:04 Gerd Tebroke (1949.11.09) 30.121 NED
83 39:05 Greg Hannon (1953.11.14) 26.116 NIR
84 39:06 Hedi Gandouzi (1956. . ) 23/24y TUN
85 39:07 Driss Talambouti (1957. . ) 22/23y MAR
86 39:09 Tonni Luttikhold (1954.03.10) 25.365 NED
87 39:10 Silvano Babici (1962.12.05) 17.095 ITA
88 39:11 Michele Cinà (1956.09.19) 23.172 ITA
89 39:11 Anacleto Pinto (1948.02.25) 32.013 POR
90 39:11 Henk Mentink (1952.03.05) 28.004 NED
91 39:12 Abdelkrim Djelassi (1952.01.28) 28.041 TUN
92 39:12 Barry Knight (1956.09.17) 23.174 ENG
93 39:13 Danny McDaid (1941.08.04) 38.218 IRL
94 39:13 Cándido Alario (1957.04.01) 22.343 ESP
95 39:13 Jean-Paul Gomez (1945.05.08) 34.306 FRA
96 39:17 Cidalio Caetano (1952.01.22) 28.047 POR
97 39:18 Piet Waaning (1947.03.19) 32.356 NED
98 39:19 Ismo Toukonen (1954.04.25) 25.319 FIN
99 39:21 Mike Dyon (1955.10.26) 24.135 CAN
100 39:21 Neil Cusack (1951.12.30) 28.070 IRL
101 39:22 Eero Kinaret (1956.04.06) 23.338 SWE
102 39:24 Abdelkader Zaddem (1944.10.12) 35.149 TUN
103 39:24 Martti Kiilholma (1950.06.03) 29.280 FIN
104 39:25 Duncan Macdonald (1949.01.15) 31.054 USA
105 39:26 Gerry Deegan (1955.06.14) 24.269 IRL
106 39:27 Glen Grant (1953.07.16) 26.237 WAL
107 39:30 Johan Geirnaert (1951.01.09) 29.060 BEL
108 39:31 Ray Treacy (1954. . ) 25/26y IRL
109 39:32 Fernando Fernandez (1944.10.20) 35.141 ESP
110 39:33 Hannu Okkola (1954.01.23) 26.046 FIN
111 39:33 Werner Grommisch (1956.05.28) 23.286 FRG
112 39:37 Valdur Koha (1955.06.04) 24.279 FRG
113 39:39 Tommy Ekblom (1959.09.20) 20.171 FIN
114 39:41 Jan Hagelbrand (1954.07.08) 25.245 SWE
115 39:43 Rolf Kårevik (1952.02.06) 28.032 SWE
116 39:44 Jon Sinclair (1957.09.04) 22.187 USA
117 39:45 Mahmoud Hazzazi (1951. . ) 28/29y ALG
118 39:49 Tahar Bounab (1945. . ) 34/35y ALG
119 39:51 Alain Bordeleau (1956.10.07) 23.154 CAN
120 39:53 Otello Sorato (1954.05.22) 25.292 ITA
121 39:54 Gerry Finnegan (1956. . ) 23/24y IRL
122 39:55 Alberto Cova (1958.12.01) 21.099 ITA
123 39:55 Michael Lane (1951.02.26) 29.012 WAL
124 39:55 Dahou Belghazi (1954. . ) 25/26y MAR
125 39:56 Vladimir Pesekhonov (1950. . ) 29/30y URS
126 39:57 Piet Vonck (1947.04.02) 32.342 NED
127 39:58 Bo Orrsveden (1959.04.27) 20.317 SWE
128 39:59 Graham Clark (1956.03.31) 23.344 SCO
129 40:00 Svend-Erik Kristensen (1956.06.24) 23.259 DEN
130 40:03 Peter Moore (1947. . ) 32/33y CAN
131 40:05 Gordon Rimmer (1956.08.09) 23.213 SCO
132 40:11 Heino Lipsanen (1954.03.06) 26.003 FIN
133 40:12 Bo Nytofle (1949.11.08) 30.122 DEN
134 40:13 Mohamed El Bali (1960. . ) 19/20y MAR
135 40:14 Francisco Guerra (1957.12.13) 22.087 ESP
136 40:15 Ari Paunonen (1958.03.10) 21.365 FIN
137 40:15 Andreas Weniger (1958.01.19) 22.050 FRG
138 40:16 Clive Thomas (1947.03.27) 32.348 WAL
139 40:17 Jo Schout (1954.04.25) 25.319 NED
140 40:19 Alan Cole (1953.07.10) 26.243 WAL
141 40:21 Ardhaoui Borni (1952.08.03) 27.219 TUN
142 40:23 Mustapha Oulghazi (1951. . ) 28/29y MAR
143 40:26 Keld Johnsen (1950.11.20) 29.110 DEN
144 40:27 Ferid Mekki (1956. . ) 23/24y TUN
145 40:27 Donal Walsh (1947.05.28) 32.286 IRL
146 40:28 Mansour Guettaya (1949.12.26) 30.074 TUN
147 40:28 Don Howieson (1954.05.07) 25.307 CAN
148 40:29 Chris Buckley (1961.07.26) 18.227 WAL
149 40:33 Vlastimil Zwiefelhofer (1952.11.20) 27.110 TCH
150 40:40 Rod Stone (1951.10.11) 28.150 NIR
151 40:44 Lars Bo Sørensen (1957.08.22) 22.200 DEN
152 40:44 Ernie Cunningham (1947. . ) 32/33y NIR
153 40:45 Pertti Tiainen (1954.11.15) 25.115 FIN
154 40:48 Paul O'Callaghan (1964.06.01) 15.282 IRL
155 40:58 Liu Zonggui (1954. . ) 25/26y CHN
156 41:03 Amara Chiha (1956. . ) 23/24y TUN
157 41:13 Omar Anassi (1954. . ) 25/26y MAR
158 41:15 David Gillanders (1949.11.18) 30.112 SWE
159 41:17 Per Hoffmann (1958.07.15) 21.238 DEN
160 41:20 Yehuda Zadok (1958.12.29) 21.071 ISR
161 41:27 Seppo Liuttu (1956.12.29) 23.071 FIN
162 41:28 Leon Weyers (1957. . ) 22/23y NED
163 41:28 Christian Wolfsberg (1957.10.05) 22.156 DEN
164 41:43 Arye Gamliel (1957.11.21) 22.109 ISR
165 42:05 Tom Annett (1951.01.12) 29.057 NIR
166 42:24 Paul Lawther (1955.12.22) 24.078 NIR
167 42:31 Brian McSloy (1958.12.03) 21.097 SCO
168 42:34 Cameron Spence (1950.07.19) 29.234 NIR
169 42:38 Pat McCullough (1955. . ) 24/25y NIR
170 42:42 Huang Tzawen (1954. . ) 25/26y CHN
DNF João Campos (1958.09.22) 21.169 POR
DNF Mats Erixon (1958.03.19) 21.356 SWE
DNF Christoph Herle (1955.11.19) 24.111 FRG
DNF Venanzio Ortis (1955.01.29) 25.040 ITA
DNF Willy Polleunis (1947.12.27) 32.073 BEL
DNF Aniceto Simoes (1945.09.08) 34.183 POR
DNF Guy Bourban (1955.05.18) 24.296 FRA
DNF Nat Muir (1958.03.12) 21.363 SCO
DNF Guy Arbogast (1956.06.06) 23.277 USA

Lots of great runners. It would be good to do something in honor of Terry. maybe something to do with XC. RonB 20-20 sounds interesting.

Cheers

KM

[ronb]

I love the thought of doing something in memory of Terry, with a cross-country running touch to it. I'm sure Terry would love it too.... Count me in !

[ronb]

How about something like the Terry Goodenough Memorial Fund. With proceeds towards the further development of National & International level Cross-Country Running in Canada. Managed by an independent group of Terry's family, friends, and supporters, with an advisory panel of coaches and/or athletes, and not under the control of Athletics Canada.
Just a few thoughts to help get the ball rolling...