20/20 vision for Canadian Distance Running

[ronb]

In 1998, I was working on something I called a 20/20 vision for the future of Canadian Distance Running. It was to be a 20 point plan/vision to be enacted and improved upon over the 20 year period from 2000 through 2020. Of course 20/20 is crystal clear vision, so there was some sense, at least in my mind, that this was both practical and marketable.
I presented the broad strokes, verbally, to the AGM that year, and received a lot of positive feedback. So, then I started putting pen to paper, and moving the concept through to a draft plan which was to be presented in the Fall of 1998. Unfortunately, things changed, and that's where the project still lies. A bunch of dusty old thoughts and memories that I still believe could have value to Canadian Distance Running over the longer term.
So I am going to start writing my thoughts towards a 20/20 vision for Canadian Distance Running, and where we want to be by the year 2020.
Perhaps this thread could act as an initial sounding board for those who want to contribute positive energy and ideas.
Initially I included all goals from having healthier, fitter children, up to being in the Olympic final, and everything in between, and also included the follow up on how our former top athletes could complete the circle by contributing to the next generation of our runners. I think that is very important.
Anyways, enough from me. I look forward to your thoughts, and suggest we follow the "brain-storming" principles, where there is no bad idea, we just try to build better ideas...

[ronb]

Here is the incredible personal sacrifice I have made today, on behalf of 20/20. I forced myself to go for a brunch/beer at the BayPub in beautiful Cowichan Bay. Talked my way into having the World Cross Country Champs. on the big screen, and was able to convince a few patrons what a fantastic event it was/is, and point out Simon Bairu's great race, and suggested that Canada needed to do much more to support this sport. Hey, one step at a time...

[tb400]

Hi Ron,

My wife and I are involved in the administration of the Run Jump Throw program in Ont. In reviewing the RJT program materials and the LTAD information as it relates to aerobic training for kids 6 and up, I would like to know your thoughts and ideas regarding the appropriate aerobic training volumes and workouts as it relates to musculoskeletal development.

I have a good handle on the appropriate time to introduce speed, agility and technique in most events. However my background is skewed towards anaerobic alactic and lactic training, and I am not sure about the training volumes and competition distances for many kids I see in clubs and schools. We're concerned about what constitutes too much or not enough aerobic training in relation to the LTAD from stage 2 onwards (ages 6 and older).

Thank you for offering to share the ideas from the 20/20 vision so that when we impart information to the coaches and teachers we train, we get the balance right and provide the appropriate information regarding aerobic training volumes for kids from grades 1 to 8. This way we can do our part to develop LD runners for 2020 and beyond. Thanks.

[davidson]

Apr 10, 2010 15:58:30 GMT -5 ronb said:

...suggested that Canada needed to do much more to support this sport. Hey, one step at a time...

I have a feeling my comments might not be the most popular on here, but I feel I have to make them.

Ron, why does Canada need to do much more to support this sport?

To be honest, it's great that Simon ran so well, but how does that reflect upon Canada and Canadians? Why do we need to have a strong cross country or track program at an elite level? Yes, I agree it would be nice for our athletes to get a bit more money, but really, there are more important things facing Canadians (and all citizens of the world).

I agree that we as a nation need to rethink our approach to physical activity and health, but that doesn't necessarily mean funding elite programs so that we can have role models. Why not just running for the sake of running instead of trying to be #1 in the world?

Yes it's nice to have meets to race in but the development is a definite want and not a need. I am curious to hear, however, what you would suggest be done about having healthier and more active children (and by extension adults as well).

Though I'm sure there are a few children who have been inspired by Olympic gold medal winners in Vancouver, I question the larger impact that success has had when it's also been surrounded by repeated messages about Tim Horton's and the other sponsors.

Sorry to be so cynical and negative in a topic that you clearly meant to be a starting off point, but I think to look forward we have to ask ourselves why we want to promote the sport. Is it a matter of national pride? Or are we in this to enrich our lives? Or both?

I'd like to say sorry for trying to stir to pot, but I'm not really. I don't mean to say we shouldn't be doing anything, I just want to know why you think we need to do these actions.

[ronb]

Apr 10, 2010 19:32:06 GMT -5 davidson said:

Apr 10, 2010 15:58:30 GMT -5 ronb said:

...suggested that Canada needed to do much more to support this sport. Hey, one step at a time...

I have a feeling my comments might not be the most popular on here, but I feel I have to make them.

Ron, why does Canada need to do much more to support this sport?

To be honest, it's great that Simon ran so well, but how does that reflect upon Canada and Canadians? Why do we need to have a strong cross country or track program at an elite level? Yes, I agree it would be nice for our athletes to get a bit more money, but really, there are more important things facing Canadians (and all citizens of the world).

I agree that we as a nation need to rethink our approach to physical activity and health, but that doesn't necessarily mean funding elite programs so that we can have role models. Why not just running for the sake of running instead of trying to be #1 in the world?

Yes it's nice to have meets to race in but the development is a definite want and not a need. I am curious to hear, however, what you would suggest be done about having healthier and more active children (and by extension adults as well).

Though I'm sure there are a few children who have been inspired by Olympic gold medal winners in Vancouver, I question the larger impact that success has had when it's also been surrounded by repeated messages about Tim Horton's and the other sponsors.

Sorry to be so cynical and negative in a topic that you clearly meant to be a starting off point, but I think to look forward we have to ask ourselves why we want to promote the sport. Is it a matter of national pride? Or are we in this to enrich our lives? Or both?

I'd like to say sorry for trying to stir to pot, but I'm not really. I don't mean to say we shouldn't be doing anything, I just want to know why you think we need to do these actions.

Wow, that positive energy lasted a long time, didn't it
Unbelievable response, davidson...Post on some other thread, if you don't have anything better to bring than that...If that is your idea of brain-storming, you need therapy - not that there is anything wrong with that...

[bcg]

Hmm, I always assumed that the people that liked to come to this site cared about Canadian track & field/distance running at all levels (from beginner & recreational right up to and including elite). Guess I was wrong.

[ronb]

Apr 10, 2010 21:12:58 GMT -5 bcg said:

Hmm, I always assumed that the people that liked to come to this site cared about Canadian track & field/distance running at all levels (from beginner & recreational right up to and including elite). Guess I was wrong.

I can't believe that, no matter how carefully one tries to craft a positive message, there are "snipers" such as Davidson, who show up....Zero to offer on a positive vein, but quick to jump in to make sure they interrupt any possible positive flow... Perhaps, this is a "message", that those of us who love the sport (distance running) need to keep in mind and spirit all of the time...Let's overcome the doubters, and the do-nothings, and the disbelievers, and the chat-line yak-offs...

[davidson]

So does that mean you can't care about something and at the same time and ask questions about it as well?

I'm merely asking why we need to support the sport more than we do. Emphasis on need.

Sure it would be nice to give financial support to everyone who wants to compete in the sport but it doesn't seem to be a pressing need. Instead of responding to my questions, both responses attacked me or questioned what I value.

I'm either with you or against you, is that how it goes? That's a great way to have a discussion I guess. It certainly worked for a recent world leader.

Keep in mind that most people are in this sport because they enjoy doing it (otherwise, what's the point?) and get something out of the hard work they put in besides the medals and results and occasional cash windfalls they get from sponsorships or race winnings.

Why does our specific sport need further support than we already get? What does the sport give back in return (financially and intangibles)? I'm sure there are a few answers to this last question, and I can think of a few myself, but I'm wondering if the cost is worth the benefit.

I'm not saying that athletes and athletics should not be supported, but to say we need to support it is a pretty strong statement which I don't necessarily agree with. What will be the big problem if we don't get further support? It's a simple question.

I have met several elite Canadian athletes and those that I've talked to have all been really nice people and it's no doubt a good thing that they've been able to be successful in doing something they love. I have also coached several elementary teams (and will likely be doing much more of that in the future) and have enjoyed the experiences thoroughly. So yes, bcg, I do care about the sport.

But what is this importance that we attach to our sport? What is the big deal if our athletes never win gold medals at Olympics or World Championships? We (Canadians and our athletes) are no worse off by not excelling at this sport or any other sport. Yes, it would be nice, but what does it mean in the grand scheme of things? We are too focused on the collective (i.e. if Canada wins a a gold medal all Canadians feel pride even though it had nothing to do with them and affects them in no way at all) and not enough on the individual (e.g. be the best you can be).

Perhaps all this rambling is my take on what our focus should be: be the best you can be within the system. Why should we ask for any special treatment to realize our dreams? There are probably millions of people in Canada who would love to have support to do something they enjoy, but the reality is they have to get a job first and then if there's time they can do what they love. I'm not saying that's right (again, perhaps we need shorter work weeks and more access to leisure activities), but it's the reality we live in.

Instead of being so focused on results (top 4, top 8, etc.) maybe we should be focused on personal fulfilment and experiences. If a group of people want to work together to fulfil their goals (e.g. NTC's or something similar) than by all means they should do it, but to expect support without giving reasons for the need of support seems rather silly and to be honest I think we (well, not really we, the few of us who are fast enough) should be happy with what we get if we cannot say why we need funding or television coverage or even just a mention in the newspaper.

As for your message that I "sniped," you come across as very selfish and arrogant. Obviously the things you love (which, I might add is something I enjoy quite a bit too) must be the most important in the world and everyone must support you. I also think that if you follow things blindly and not even deal with any possible doubt, you're just deceiving yourself. And I guess you no me well enough to call me a do-nothing and a chat room yak-off (the other two are pretty much dead on, I must admit, but I'm glad that I have the ability not to accept everything that any person on the Internet might write).

If you cannot even deal with simple questions and need to respond with childish taunts then I wonder how well you will do in convincing the rest of the people you hope to convince. At the very least, you could offer up some of your own ideas and at least an attempt at answering my question. If you're so passionate about the whole thing, it should be pretty easy for you... but then again, calling someone names online is much more fun, right?

[nixon]

I believe thinking like Davidson's is the reason for the North American stagnation in the past few decades. The mantra "be the best you can be" seems to have hobbled our running community into feeling that competing is succeeding, when we need to be thinking of ways to improve our results to the point where we are able to be in that Olympic final.

It sounds like the whole marathoning mentality of "as long as you finish, you're a winner too". I think Davidson is trying to say that it doesn't seem like we can compete with the best in the world so why bother?In a thread that is supposed to be about how to improve Canadian distance running (hopefully to the Olympic final), saying things like what is the big deal if our athletes never win gold medals at the Olympics is just counter-productive.

We care about this sport and want to compete with the best in the world so it is important to at least myself and Ron that our athletes excel at this sport.

[bcg]

Davidson, I don`t get how you can say you really care about the sport when you question the need for our country`s top runners to be better supported- most of these athletes have to make huge personal and financial sacrifices to get to and stay at the world-calibre level- they are currently expected to live at or below poverty level, and put the rest of their life on hold. It seems to me that our country treats our laziest citizens who don`t want to work for a living a lot better ( I realize too that there also those on welfare through no fault of their own, with illness or other problems) But surely Canada`s top runners deserve the chance to be the best that they can be and compete on an even playing field with the elite from the rest of the world. Or perhaps things like the Olympics or World Championships have no meaning for you. Most countries and societies value the role of sport, including at the elite level. I expect that most Canadians would be in favour of providing a reasonable level of support to their best amateur athletes, and the current level of support in running is pretty dismal, to the point of having many throw in the towel before they even get really going.

[saskatchewan]

Apr 10, 2010 12:20:04 GMT -5 ronb said:

In 1998, I was working on something I called a 20/20 vision for the future of Canadian Distance Running. It was to be a 20 point plan/vision to be enacted and improved upon over the 20 year period from 2000 through 2020. Of course 20/20 is crystal clear vision, so there was some sense, at least in my mind, that this was both practical and marketable.
I presented the broad strokes, verbally, to the AGM that year, and received a lot of positive feedback. So, then I started putting pen to paper, and moving the concept through to a draft plan which was to be presented in the Fall of 1998. Unfortunately, things changed, and that's where the project still lies. A bunch of dusty old thoughts and memories that I still believe could have value to Canadian Distance Running over the longer term.
So I am going to start writing my thoughts towards a 20/20 vision for Canadian Distance Running, and where we want to be by the year 2020.
Perhaps this thread could act as an initial sounding board for those who want to contribute positive energy and ideas.
Initially I included all goals from having healthier, fitter children, up to being in the Olympic final, and everything in between, and also included the follow up on how our former top athletes could complete the circle by contributing to the next generation of our runners. I think that is very important.
Anyways, enough from me. I look forward to your thoughts, and suggest we follow the "brain-storming" principles, where there is no bad idea, we just try to build better ideas...

Hi Ron, good thread. So i'll bite:

As i've articulated on other threads, the future success for competive LD athletics in canada lies with funding from the private, not public sector. Carding is fine but the real money is sitting with private individuals and organizations. We just need to unlock it (and i don't buy the arguement that it can't be unlocked).

The internet now provides a low-cost medium to access local, regional, national and international races previously seen by only by limited regional audiences or event spectators. The quality of internet coverage will only improve, and we should be on the forefront developing this with a CDN perspective.

The US distance rebirth has shown that there are likely many different ways to approach training groups. We as Canadians need to consider approaches other then just reliance on traditional national distance centres.

No effort is too small. Recent new races organized by DST, HHH, Wetcoast show that ingeniuity in Canadian distance circles is alive and well. We should strongly support and encourage these efforts at every opportunity and be willing to share lessons learned.

Support AC but be willing to develop alternative avenues to support our LD athletes. If AC won't fund them, then we should find a way to fund them. He who controls the purse strings ultimately calls the shots.

Encourage local races to support talented local distance runners through bursuries, prize money, sponsorships, etc.

Keep brainstorming on such threads as this. Lots of great ideas out there, so lets share them.

Personally support talented local athletes in your area (i.e. don't wait for Nike to sign them up, buy them a pair of shoes, write an article in the paper about them, keep encouraging them the stay in the sport).

Choose to be positive rather then negative.



Provided this thread doesn't disolve into mudslinging i'll be back with further thoughts later. Good job Ron for keeping the discussion going!

[davidson]

Apr 10, 2010 23:38:29 GMT -5 nixon said:

I believe thinking like Davidson's is the reason for the North American stagnation in the past few decades. The mantra "be the best you can be" seems to have hobbled our running community into feeling that competing is succeeding, when we need to be thinking of ways to improve our results to the point where we are able to be in that Olympic final.

It sounds like the whole marathoning mentality of "as long as you finish, you're a winner too". I think Davidson is trying to say that it doesn't seem like we can compete with the best in the world so why bother?In a thread that is supposed to be about how to improve Canadian distance running (hopefully to the Olympic final), saying things like what is the big deal if our athletes never win gold medals at the Olympics is just counter-productive.

We care about this sport and want to compete with the best in the world so it is important to at least myself and Ron that our athletes excel at this sport.

How is trying your best at something causing us not to be our best? I would have thought the opposite, that focusing on individual improvement is more important than focusing on how many medals you get. You can't control other people or other nations. I'm not saying athletes should be satisfied with merely showing up and giving a bit of an effort, but if someone does their best and they don't get a medal, what's the big deal? Is it only about the medals? Because then if that's all we care about with regards to sports, that's pretty shallow.

And assuming you're not one of those elite athletes, what difference does it make to your enjoyment of the sport whether or not we can compete with the best in the world. If we all supposedly love it, then why the need for us to be the best? Especially in a sport that is immensely more popular in other nations.

[davidson]

Apr 10, 2010 23:40:27 GMT -5 bcg said:

Davidson, I don`t get how you can say you really care about the sport when you question the need for our country`s top runners to be better supported- most of these athletes have to make huge personal and financial sacrifices to get to and stay at the world-calibre level- they are currently expected to live at or below poverty level, and put the rest of their life on hold. It seems to me that our country treats our laziest citizens who don`t want to work for a living a lot better ( I realize too that there also those on welfare through no fault of their own, with illness or other problems) But surely Canada`s top runners deserve the chance to be the best that they can be and compete on an even playing field with the elite from the rest of the world. Or perhaps things like the Olympics or World Championships have no meaning for you. Most countries and societies value the role of sport, including at the elite level. I expect that most Canadians would be in favour of providing a reasonable level of support to their best amateur athletes, and the current level of support in running is pretty dismal, to the point of having many throw in the towel before they even get really going.

No one is expecting them to live at or below the poverty line, it's their career choice. Yes, they work just as hard (well, probably a lot harder) than everyone else and to be honest it can be inspiring for some (mostly those already in the sport and probably everyone who comes on these boards - which probably explains the indignation).

The problem is that the powers that be don't seem to see the benefit in funding these athletes more than they already do. Who really benefits when the elite athletes fare well in an international championship? The athlete, their family, friends and coach? Their sponsors (if any). The TnFNorth Community? Shouldn't the people that benefit from the performances be the ones who support it - how many people on here give money to these elite athletes so they can compete? I'm sure there are a few, but I'm just curious to see. After all, you are telling other people how to spend their money, how do you spend yours?

Some people seem to think that being a full-time athlete is a right, while I view it as a privilege. Perhaps I'm wrong and we do need many elite athletes getting lots of support. Yet, no one has given me a reason why the country needs to support them.

Internal efforts like the new Guelph-London-Windsor series are the kinds of things that are making an impact in a positive way.

More needs to be done (yes, needs) to get more children involved in all sorts of sports. It may also be anti-productive to get younger children involved in endurance sports and try to develop them to be future long distance stars (it sounds a little bit like China or the old USSR to be honest).

My ideas:

- focus on enjoyment of the sport and getting out of it what you put into it. If that involves someone wanting to be the best in the world, then that should be encouraged.
- give as many chances to children to participate in the sport as possible with a focus on doing their best (not just lazily running and not worrying about who wins or who doesn't).
- if elite success is so important to everyone on here, find a way to make it work beyond saying: "we need more support." Set up a way for non-elite athletes who want to support elite athletes to actually do so. (adopt a long distance runner - though I don't know how well this will appeal to those outside the sport).
- create more opportunities for people who aren't elite. Make the sport accessible to everyone if you want to see it grow.
- come up with reasons that are clear and easy to understand as to why the sport needs more money beyond supporting children (because why should politicians give you money without a good reason? It's not like the track community votes in a big block , and by the way, does anyone know which party supports amateur sports more, that might be a good thing to look up for the next election).

My intent is not to be negative (at least not completely), but more realistic. I look at this sport as something I love and would feel completely guilty if someone paid me to do it all the time. I'm just looking for other reasons as to why joe public should spend money on us.

[powerboy]

Davidson, you are missing the point. Ron didn't invite all to have a debate on the place of sport in the world. This is about what we (presumably the most invested group of distance people in the country) think about the future.

Ron, here is a thought I have had for a few years; A financial trust funded by ourselves and solely for distance runners.
It seems to me that we should be able to come up with 100 successful people who could donate $1000. That is the base fund. We wouldnt touch it for at least 5 years. Plus, we could run 2-3 road races in different parts of the country where the proceeds went to the trust rather than the usual charities.
The longer range goal would be to have $1million in the fund, and then perhaps we could only need to spend the interest each year.
We would have a small board of directors (3-5) who would oversee the allocations.
The most obvious use might be to fund world xc, but I would be interested in funding 3:47 guys to go to Europe to see whether they could run 3:42 etc., so that the next year, or the year after those 3:42 guys would be chasing 3:38.
There would be no absolute minimums or maximum requirements, so that we might choose to fund some women running 4:20 one year over some women closer to 4:10 on the grounds that the 4:10 group has been stuck there for a couple of years.

I would certainly undertake to take a leading role in this, including the legal requirements.
This is one of my thoughts on going forward.
Feel free to comment, but again, not with negative thoughts. I have thought of most aspects of this but obviously would not spell them all out in the first discussion.
Let me end on this positive twist to a bad result: If all we did was raise $50,000 over 2-3 years and seemed stuck there, we would have 50k to expend on a couple of worthy projects. That would not be the worst thing in the world.

[wetcoast]

I think Ron is looking for ideas, feedback, support of the vision etc etc. I think on the other hand Davidson is looking at organic ways - more grassroots ways to build interest in the sport, perhaps with the notion that a possible organic/grassroots upsurge in participation from a young age, will provide greater interest...support....money in the long run...that's what it looks like to me. Both are positive in a way.

I think McMillan Elite is a good example of where not a ton of money is used, but corporate sponsorship provides support. None of those runners are rich. Brett Gotcher running a 2:10 is probably out of a financial hole now....so in that case his lifestyle choice coupled with corporate support is going in the right direction. Let's see what it leads to.

Myself, I think creating interest in athletics from a very young age is a key must-have bullet point in the proverbial long list of items that should be tackled.

Grassroots - first priority no question. Every kid should be made to run, run/walk, walk/run with positive messaging everyday at school. Create life-long interest in fitness and health.

[benjamin]

As far as long term goals go, I think getting our own funding system set up is a great idea, in theory. The practical side is that I would want to be able to provide as much support as possible to several different levels of the sport from high schools on up to the university programs and the club system and individual athletes at an elite and sub-elite post-collegiate level. There will obviously be some overlap there, but the support should go beyond just handing money to an athlete and saying, "Here you go. Now go win."

For our own funding system we definitely would have a long way to go. Talking about $50,000 or $100,000 is pocket change compared to what AC has available. Just roughly, from memory here, take 66 carding spots with $18,000 funding per card. That's $1,188,000. If we were to set up a trust fund and touch only the interest, to get those kind of amounts we would be looking at, depending on the interest rate, more than $20 million principal? Obviously we would need to start small and build up to that, but just keep in mind the actual amount required if we want to fully fund someone. Since AC is still providing cards, I don't see a reason to try to replace them at the moment. Let's work with the system that's there to the extent we can.

A better place to start would be to fund trips to races, as someone said earlier. Specifically, I see no reason why we shouldn't aim to have as many Canadian athletes as we can get competing in the Canada Running Series, or the London Distance Runner Series, or the Alberta cross country series or the Victoria Track Series. We could help fund travel, hotels, meet entries, meals while there, etc.

Other things to include might be more on the support lines - help make physio, medical needs, nutritional help, massage, etc. available to clubs, schools, or individuals, depending. Buy them shoes if they don't have a sponsor providing them. Buy them shorts and a shirt. If they're staying in Canada for the winter, help fund tights, jackets, gloves, and hats, or treadmills or the use of indoor tracks if needed. Pay for their yearly admission to an outdoor track, or an indoor track, or both. Pay for their AC membership. Whatever works.

I think it's a good idea to look beyond individual athletes and help provide coaches, clubs and schools the resources they need as well, from transportation for teams to meets to on-site therapists to training camps. We could even set up training camps that are open to anyone who can get there, like what Chris Winter's got going with Steeplestock. Get high school kids out for a fun weekend of running and meeting hundreds of other runners and I bet they start to feel like they're part of something bigger.

[SI]

Apr 11, 2010 9:02:49 GMT -5 powerboy said:

Davidson, you are missing the point.

No he isn't. He is actually the only one on point. To criticize him for not being yet another Pollyanna in this discussion pretty well sums up why this most recent attempt "to save distance running in Canada" of the many that I have seen on this board won't go anywhere either.

[SI]

Apr 10, 2010 23:38:29 GMT -5 nixon said:

I believe thinking like Davidson's is the reason for the North American stagnation in the past few decades. The mantra "be the best you can be" seems to have hobbled our running community into feeling that competing is succeeding

You have everything exactly backward and you are mixing up your cause and result. Davidson doesn't think like this, he is summarizing what the thinking is. People don't want to be the best they can be anymore(in distance running anyway) unless some external force helps them get there. That's the problem. The result of that is that just competing(actually finishing) is succeeding. If people wanted to be the best they can be and can be driven there internally, just showing up wouldn't be good enough.

[bcg]

I think Ron`s intent to try to help the future of Canadian distance running is a good thing, especially with what appears to be AC`s abandonment of the sport. Why do some people feel the need to try to derail this effort?

As far as funding help the idea of a series of road races across the country which at least in part provide some support to the top athletes seems sound (could be used to subsidize competition travel expenses, etc). Perhaps some catchy name for the series. Or they wouldn`t necessarily have to be new races if the current organizers could be convinced to make a certain percentage of profits available for this purpose. Perhaps this already happens to a certain degree but if so these efforts could be increased.

As far as growing the sport obviously encouraging more kids to trying running (and sport in general) makes sense- in my opinion physical activity should be mandatory all the way through high school (with the occasional exception for those with serious medical conditions that don`t allow strenuos exercise). The financial burden on the country`s medical system dealing with illness related to inactivity is extremely high. And presumably if Canadian youth are able to see our top distance athletes performing well on the world stage it encourages and inspires more of them to try the sport.

[powerboy]

SI, You definitely got up on the wrong side of the bed today too. This isnt a philosophical thread about what's right or wrong, its about ideas to do better. Perhaps on another thread you could discuss the merits of distance running in Canada and whether it needs to survive or not, but here we are looking for positive input.
I was reading a story somewhere this week which talked about the money raised in one of the big US events (Cherry Blossom 10mile?)
Anyway, they raised 1.1 million from entry fees and only paid out 42k in prize money.
Imagine a 3 race series Toronto, Edmonton, Vancouver that had 3000 entries each at $30. and the net profit of $20 per runner. That would be close to 200k in funds each year, and is not too difficult to pull together.
Rather than fund athletes living expenses, perhaps the money could be spent on 2 week training camps where athletes and coaches got a chance to exchange ideas and train together.
I recognize that we are starting small and there is some wishful thinking involved, but what is the alternative?

[maser]

Hey Ron; What a great thread to start. It's good to you've decided to try to get some input. The big problem I with running now id that are some many other sports out there that kids can do ie soccer, hockey, etc. One of the big problems up my way is that you will have hundreds of kids show up for school cross country or track. Then when you get the provincials the turnout in the juniors is horrible. Somewhere along the way we've lot those kids. I've seen lots of really talented grade 8's or 9 students over the years with loads of potential but for some reason either by the time the last year of high school comes around they give up or maybe pursue other sports with more of a high profile. So maybe we need to raise the profile of the sport.
I think a lot the elite athletes are actually more than willing to give back to the sport. We need to make them more visible to the general public ie raise awareness. Get them out with the kids or doing running clinics at races. Corporate sponsors love this.

The road race idea is a good one maybe the Timex series could
contribute to a fund. HHH up here has started trying to promote the sport more with the Saucony xc series and the Northland mile.
That`s good start. Those of us who have been in the sport maybe need to get involved a little more.

A lot of good coaches have left the sport just due the frustration of dealing with officialdom of the sport. I think the powers that be need to realize that it takes a long time to develop world class athletes. The amount of funding that AC receives is really small. The current political system spends more money on royal commisions or enquiries.

The whole system needs to be revamped. I don`t think the NTC system works we had one here and it was a bit of a joke. Both high end guys went to the 2012 UK Olympics. We couldn`t afford the salaries that London offered. WE need to have in place a solid plan not just for running but most amateur sports in general.

I look forward to hearing some of your thoughts Ron and others.

Cheers

KM

[SI]

Apr 11, 2010 11:44:41 GMT -5 powerboy said:

SI, You definitely got up on the wrong side of the bed today too. This isnt a philosophical thread about what's right or wrong, its about ideas to do better.

I'm good with the side of the bed I got up on, thanks. In order to come up with ideas to make it better, you have to understand what is wrong in the first place. The constant theme in this and similar threads is that it is a money problem. Many think that the money should come from the feds and since it isn't then, admirably, we throw around ideas how we can come up with money on our own. However, it is my belief that if you build it, they will not come. If the reason for that isn't understood, then the exercise is a waste of time.

[benjamin]

SI is definitely right that it isn't simply a money problem. Money would help with some things, and add some extra quality to what we have going on already, but that wouldn't really change the lack of interest in the sport (other than for those who are after an athletic career for money, in which case bring on the big paycheques).

SI: If you build "it" they will come. What is "it" exactly? Care to elaborate? I don't really think a baseball stadium in a cornfield is what we're after here.

[davidson]

Apr 11, 2010 12:01:40 GMT -5 @maser said:

One of the big problems up my way is that you will have hundreds of kids show up for school cross country or track. Then when you get the provincials the turnout in the juniors is horrible. Somewhere along the way we've lot those kids. I've seen lots of really talented grade 8's or 9 students over the years with loads of potential but for some reason either by the time the last year of high school comes around they give up or maybe pursue other sports with more of a high profile. So maybe we need to raise the profile of the sport.

I think there are several reasons for this, but I will list just a couple that come to mind:

1) When young kids do track or cross country, it's fun, or at the very least, it's fun for them. As we get older, there is less emphasis on fun and more on winning. Some kids just get disinterested in running for long periods of time and are not yet old enough (or experienced enough) to appreciate the positives that we get from running well.

2) Long distance running is essentially an individual sport. In other words, if you want to win anything, you have to be the best. As kids get older, it gets harder and harder to be the best (since the talent pool gets larger and winning times get faster). On the flip side, a half decent soccer player, learning their role on a good team, could be on a great team, or at least give them a shot to do well. Our sports focus on results has a negative effect on children who just want to have fun. If you want to grow a sport you need to cater to the wants of the many who will never even have a chance of making a national team.

In my mind, the focus on keeping children active is the most important thing.

On the topic of athletes giving back, I've seen A LOT of current and former athletes helping out with coaching of elementary and high school teams (I even remember a few Victoria elementary meets where there were a few of us older athletes coaching several different teams). Also, while I have seen many elite athletes give back to their community, especially in conjunction with major meets (Angela Whyte at the Vic Track Classic still sticks strongly in my mind), there are a few (I can't remember names, and even if I could, this isn't the place to call them out) who were less than enthusiastic with the wee ones.

One way to perhaps help out elite athletes is to look into ways to fund jobs for these athletes to work with school boards to help develop a) better coaching and b) to actually help out with some of the coaching. To be honest, I think it is more important (especially to the general public) that we take care of all citizens and not just the handful of elite athletes we have. If we can have the elite athletes benefit financially from helping out the younger athletes then that is one potential solution that can benefit everyone. Though finding that funding might be difficult.

A few people mentioned road races, which brings up an interesting angle to this discussion. It seems to me that road racing in Canada (at least in the places where I've lived) is quite a popular sport. It was only a few weekends ago where over 10,000 people registered for the various races at the oldest road race in North America (Around the Bay in Hamilton). I'm sure some of the Victoria people could give similar numbers for the TC10k and the Victoria International Marathon. Participation at this level is pretty high and most Saturday or Sunday mornings if you go to the right places you'll see a large number of less-than-elite runners. Maybe the challenge is bridging the gap between all of these people. Having athletes work at running stores and helping with the run clinics is a way to do that (and to have athletes make some money). I'm sure there are much better ideas.

Someone also mentioned that road races can make a $20 profit off of a $30 entry fee. I'm no expert but that seems extraordinarily high. I know there are people on this board who might know how much it costs to put on a race and how profitable they can be. I don't know if you can expect a $60,000 profit off of a road race. If so, then why aren't we doing these almost every month.

And though a multi-city/province series of road races sounds nice, but how many people are going to travel across the country for a road race? Maybe only a handful. Perhaps strengthening road race series within provinces (the PIH series is pretty big on Vancouver Island) is a better approach. A lot of people seem to have these big top-down approaches when in reality a bottom up approach is likely to get more results.

Another issue to deal with is the vast distances within our country. How often do the BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba top runners get to race the Ontario, Quebec and East Coast top runners? This is a much larger issue to deal with than most other countries.

bcg, there is something to be said for having elite athletes inspire children to try a sport, however, I'm not so sure they need to necessarily be tearing it up internationally to do so. That being said, it's one thing to inspire someone to try a sport (e.g. the rise in people wanting to try all of those winter sports after the Olympics) and a completely different one to get people to stay once they realize how much work is necessary to actually do well (and also to keep them in when they realize they won't personally be competing for Canada in Sochi).

[isaachunt]

Davidson, why are you on this site? I have read all the posts and you seem to be the only one that isn't remotely close to the same page. Are you a runner? If so I would assume very casual. Are you passionate about anything in your life? Are you a proud Canadian and if so how did you come to be a proud Canadian? You are so far off the map for this site I will leave restrain myself before a head off, way off on you. Great topic Ron.

For many years I have been pondering a charitable fund for runners. Individual and corporate donations of all types that sit in one fund controlled by a volunteer board that directs it to running individuals that request and need funding. The donations are driven in by myself and other individuals that promote the fund.

[isaachunt]

SI, you are a moron as well! Why wake up tomorrow? Its just going to be the same crap you have been dealing with all your life. Do you really believe all this is futile?

We have a host of great talent coming up at a critical age that are all training as hard as they can. Lets continue this thread with positive ideas of how we might effect this group. I believe money does have its place in aiding the future elite Canadian runners.

[journeyman]

Before we get to the solutions, I think we need to think about the reasons for the problem. My opinion is that is starts and ends in the schools.

My track club works at the Jeux de Montreal track meet every year. We rake the long jump pits, put the HJ bar back up, and work the finish line. When I first did the event 4-5 years ago it was a zoo. There were so many kids, and it was really hard to keep everything organized. The kids seemed to have fun though. Every year since then the number of participants has dropped. Where are these kids going? Why are they not coming out to this event? My understanding of the way it works is that each school has a track and field day, and from there they send kids to the regional track and field day, and then each region or neighbourhood sends kids to the Jeux. When I asked the officials this year where everyone was, they said that not as many schools were participating.

Seems to me, there is your answer. When I was in school, we had gym class every day (or 3 out of 4 at least). Not to sound like an old man or anything, but what's up with kids these days? Probably it has to do with 1)parents' example, 2) less funding for extra-curriculars in schools and 3) teachers' example. What can we do to change that?

To me, the way to go is not to drum up support for our elite athletes, but to build our sport into the psyche of our kids. Everyone my age (or nearly) remembers doing cross country in grade school. You had to. Now, you don't have to. Sorry to sound like an apologist for authoritarianism again, but the way you instill good habits in kids is you make them do it. You make them brush their teeth, you make them finish their dinner or they don't get dessert.

Sorry Ron, I'm trying really hard to be positive. So here is the positive thing that we can do: volunteer at a local elementary school, or start up a kids running group. Here's a site that's already got something going on: www.runforlife.ca/

20 years is a pretty good event horizon or whatever you call it. It will take about 20 years for the kids in these running clubs to grow up to become either elite athletes, or people who are healthy and like running, both of which would indicate the success of the program, I'd say.

[journeyman]

ps I agree with Davison and SI. It's attitude, not money, that will change things.

[hoey]

First of all, I would like to say the witch-hunt-esque mentality displayed in the responses to Davidson's post is despicable. There are many serious runners who have different opinions on the place that the sport should hold in mainstream life.

With that said, I don't know if the sport can be resurrected without turning back the clock of western society. Can we revert back to a time when our kids ran around and played in the streets and city parks several hours a day now that television, video games and the internet have captured their attention? Signing are children up for a soccer league will not make up for the fitness and enjoyment that was lost when we took away communal play. I'm not sure how we can turn it around as a society.

[pq]

Apr 10, 2010 19:32:06 GMT -5 davidson said:

Ron, why does Canada need to do much more to support this sport?

I'm pretty much on the same page here, wondering why CANADA should do anything more, in particular, to support our sport. The Canadian taxpayer will express a willingness to fund distance running when our distance runners start to compete directly with the Gebs and Bekeles, bringing home WC and Olympic hardware on a regular basis.

I think if we want our sport to thrive, it's up to those of us who love it to grab it by the balls and make it a bigger deal. It's not a duty of the Canadian taxpayer to do so, and we shouldn't expect them to.