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Post by twofeet on Jan 26, 2010 16:24:59 GMT -5
The Toronto Public Works committee will recommend to city council that Toronto only host one marathon per year, starting in 2011, pending a full committee meeting on Feb. 2. The Scotiabank Toronto Waterfront Marathon and GoodLife Fitness Toronto Marathon are currently held three weeks apart, in late September and mid-October, respectively. The two race directors will be given the chance to make deputations before the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee. runningmagazine.ca/2010/01/sections/news/toronto-public-works-committee-recommends-city-cut-one-marathon/ |
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Post by Chris Moulton on Jan 26, 2010 16:54:28 GMT -5
This is great news, hopefully Scotiabank is the one that is selected as they actually care about elite athletics. I think this is a major turning point for marathoning in Toronto and will hopefully lead to Canada having a major (ie NYC, Boston, Chicago, London, Berlin) level marathon.
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Post by ahutch on Jan 26, 2010 17:49:26 GMT -5
I agree that this could be a big turning point -- the question is, in which direction? From the point of view of competitive runners, there's no doubt whatsoever that Scotiabank would be the better choice. Let's just hope the city sees it that way too. (The city report does sound fairly reasonable, which gives me some confidence that they'll have enough understanding of the issues to see the major benefits that Scotiabank offers as part of the Canada Running Series.)
We should be alert in case there are any requests for public input to the decision-making process.
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Post by eight-hundred on Jan 26, 2010 18:15:06 GMT -5
Its about time they did something about it. not only is it a good for us competitive runners, but for local Torontonians, they wont have to have their major roads closed twice within a three week span.
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Catts
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Post by Catts on Jan 26, 2010 18:55:17 GMT -5
I spoke to someone from one of the two marathons, and it sounds the race directors have sat down to discuss options, which is a big step forward since they don't really see eye to eye.
My understanding in their discussions was that the two events would flip dates, with Scotiabank being the city's marathon, and the Toronto event doing a half. I can't remember if Scotia would still keep their half (I'm guessing not). I believe that the Scotia course is the preferred city course, as it has less impact on the city's traffic flow. However, most runners I know prefer the Toronto marathon course as it's a bit more scenic.
I'm not sure how far along these discussions were, or how serious the plan above is, but it sounds like a great move to me.
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Post by im on Jan 26, 2010 19:55:31 GMT -5
What a shame should the city be promoting physical activity.
Oh by the way, from today's Toronto Star:
Rising obesity rates, poor diet and fitness are among the reasons heart disease is rising among the 20-to-30 age group, according to the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada.
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Post by ahutch on Jan 26, 2010 20:07:53 GMT -5
That seems like a reasonable compromise. Brookes gets to continue working towards building up a truly world-class marathon as a flagship for the CRS, and Glassman gets ownership of what is -- for now -- the more lucrative property. (The two half-marathons had 8000 and 5000 finishers last year, while the marathons had 3000 and 2000 -- Brookes with the larger numbers in both cases.)
If anything, dropping the half might boost marathon numbers for Brookes, even if total numbers are down. And that seems like a prerequisite for playing with the big boys. There are no other races associated with NYC, Boston, Chicago, London, and so on.
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Post by journeyman on Jan 26, 2010 21:56:31 GMT -5
It would be nice if they kept the real "city" course for the marathon. That is part of what makes Chicago, New York, and to some extent Boston (not so much city, but destination) great: they are an integral part of the city. So if TO is asking for something that impedes traffic less (http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-26684.pdf Page 5 point 5 seems to imply this), then it does not bode well for the whole "world class" marathon thing. I'm sorry but the back and forth waterfront course is horrible. I don't even like going for easy runs along that route. I can't imagine 2-3 (or 4 for some!) hours of it.
A couple other things: they said it wouldn't be feasible to change it for 2010 for a number of reasons (sponsorship being probably a good one). One of those reasons was runners' training schedules. Really? It's January. Who can't sort out their training at this point to deal with a potential 3-week change in date?
That document I linked to above is kind of two-faced. On the one hand it goes on about the benefits of a marathon, but on the other, it basically capitulates to whiny Sunday morning (SUNDAY MORNING!) drivers who clearly DON'T view the marathon has having many benefits. If the city is going to try to create a marathon culture, I hope at least that they support this one marathon such that Torontonians will actually take pride in it, instead of viewing it with derision and as a nuisance.
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Post by twofeet on Jan 26, 2010 22:09:35 GMT -5
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Post by journeyman on Jan 26, 2010 22:31:44 GMT -5
"The races are just three weeks apart right now and last year that created headaches for people trying to get around the city."
See, this is just a ridiculous statement. How does having two races, three weeks apart, on different routes create headaches for people? There is some kind of false logic going on here, I just don't know what it is called.
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Post by feens on Jan 26, 2010 23:49:51 GMT -5
"The races are just three weeks apart right now and last year that created headaches for people trying to get around the city." See, this is just a ridiculous statement. How does having two races, three weeks apart, on different routes create headaches for people? There is some kind of false logic going on here, I just don't know what it is called. I completely agree. I've raced the Waterfront Marathon, 1/2 Marathon, and the 5k before, and I've been to Boston as a spectator, and I have to say that Toronto is pretty darn far off from being at that level. I don't say this to knock Alan Brookes as a race director. The races themselves I have enjoyed. The biggest thing I noticed when in Boston was the crowd support. Not only was it amazing seeing people lined up to watch the race, but the whole weekend in general. It seemed that the whole city was teeming with excitement over the race. It's a big deal to them, in a good way. In Toronto, this is certainly not what I noticed. Sure, there are a fair amount of fans, but there is not an aura around the event. Not only do most people in the city not know about the event, but to many it seems to be more of an inconvenience. So many times I've seen motorists honking, yelling at the policemen, etc. Now, will merging the events solve this and make Toronto a world-class event? I'm pretty skeptical. Not for lack of effort on the race organizers parts, the runners, or the events themselves. But I think the people of the city need to get behind it first. |
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Post by wetcoast on Jan 27, 2010 1:11:47 GMT -5
Maybe the two races in three weeks is not a public thing, but a city works issue and that is a red herring excuse. Vancouver allows downtown to be shut down twice in two weeks. One for the Sun Run, sure it is only 10k, but there are 50, 000 people running in the centre, smack dab in downtown and then the Vancouver International Marathon, half and 5 miler with a total of 10, 000? I think for all three.
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Post by feens on Jan 27, 2010 2:12:04 GMT -5
I bet that even when the streets in Toronto are closed for a marathon their flow of traffic is better than Vancouver's on a normal day. And yes, I have driven in Toronto plenty of times.
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Post by journeyman on Jan 27, 2010 7:46:53 GMT -5
Maybe the two races in three weeks is not a public thing, but a city works issue and that is a red herring excuse. Vancouver allows downtown to be shut down twice in two weeks. One for the Sun Run, sure it is only 10k, but there are 50, 000 people running in the centre, smack dab in downtown and then the Vancouver International Marathon, half and 5 miler with a total of 10, 000? I think for all three. I don't know why they wouldn't just say so, if that were the case. The report seems to refer to people complaining. That is what needs to change. Get people excited and supportive of an event. If you had that public support, you could probably get away with two or three events. I wonder what the response to the Pan-Am Games marathon will be? It will be much much smaller, but 26.2 miles is 26.2 miles, so the shut down will be about the same. The lack of recreational runners will be made up for by the logistics of an international event. Will Torontonians support it? If they do, what does that say about the other marathons in Toronto? I believe Howard Stern said about the New York Marathon something to the effect of "a 4 hour marathon? That's not running, that's blocking traffic." |
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Post by Chris Moulton on Jan 27, 2010 13:21:20 GMT -5
Pan Am Games track events are to be hosted in Hamilton, so the marathon might also be there.
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oldbones
Full Member
And so it goes ...
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Post by oldbones on Jan 27, 2010 13:50:48 GMT -5
The entire "it is a huge impact to the traffic in downtown" argument is a very easy one to destroy ...
It simply needs a bit of local involvement from business improvement districts and commerce lobby organizations (which usually work against public interest but in this case they are on our side here).
Money trumps (err I mean "our local economy") public inconvenience ...
Bottom-line: The marathon(s) generates local business ... compute this value and stick it in their face. I believe it has already been done in the city analysis.
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Post by slamer on Jan 28, 2010 22:08:40 GMT -5
A few things come to mind:
1) In terms of elite runners having 2 marathons very close together isn't helpful. Although I'm not sure how much it really "hurts" anyone really.
2) Having only one marathon in the fall would definitely look more impressive -- numbers wise.
3) The increased numbers in the marathon may bring more money from the sponsors and possibly increased prize money therefore increasing the quality of the elite field.
4) Why can't one of these marathons run in the spring?
5) As someone who lives smack downtown, and always getting by various events --- having two marathons is absolutely nothing.
As to the last point, in the summer, practically every weekend a lot of roads are close for some kind of activity. No one complains.
The only ones I ever hear complain are those who are from out of town (specifically the GTA, like Mississauga, Brampton etc) who have cars, & no good public transit in their cities coming into downtown and then getting frustrated about the "sudden" congestion on a Sunday morning when they thought it would be clear. Everyone I know (who doesn't run) knows about the races because they post signs around more than a month in advance. The same with the Santa Claus parade, Gay Pride Parade, Caribana, Word on the Street Festivals, A Taste of Danforth/Little italy/Ossignton etc etc etc etc. Some of these events are THE WHOLE WEEKEND
I call bull on congestion.
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Post by slamer on Jan 28, 2010 22:12:32 GMT -5
one other point --- I believe Boston holds their marathon on a monday!!! A monday!!!!
Monday!!!! A work week.
Monday. A people here complain about Sunday morning? Seriously?
NOT a Sunday morning like we do, and they people there love it.
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Catts
Full Member
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Post by Catts on Jan 28, 2010 22:16:44 GMT -5
The Boston Marathon is held on Patriots Day, which is a holiday is Massachusetts. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriots_Dayone other point --- I believe Boston holds their marathon on a monday!!! A monday!!!! Monday!!!! A work week. Monday. A people here complain about Sunday morning? Seriously? NOT a Sunday morning like we do, and they people there love it. |
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pmac
Junior Member
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Post by pmac on Jan 28, 2010 22:19:06 GMT -5
one other point --- I believe Boston holds their marathon on a monday!!! A monday!!!! Monday!!!! A work week. Monday. A people here complain about Sunday morning? Seriously? NOT a Sunday morning like we do, and they people there love it. As a point of clarification, the Boston Marathon is always run on the third Monday in April, which coincides with Patriots' Day in Massachusetts- a holiday, not a work day. |
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Post by slamer on Jan 28, 2010 22:56:02 GMT -5
ok -- not a workday...my bad.
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Post by twofeet on Jan 28, 2010 23:43:32 GMT -5
As a further point of clarification, not all companies shut down in Mass. on Patriots' Day. I worked for a media company based just outside of Boston that opted not to take this holiday, and this is not uncommon. It's definitely much busier than a Sunday.
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Post by im on Jan 30, 2010 12:24:53 GMT -5
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Post by francisccm on Jan 31, 2010 14:34:44 GMT -5
So which marathon should be supported? I would think the one which has developed the most history, attracts the most attention and has the most potential to grow!! I mean look at the top 100 times on either race... No comparison as to which one is a more serious event. Canadian soil record anyone. IAAF silver label. There is a reason they give those labels out, it comes as a sign of international prestige. In terms of marathoning I don't see how there is even a viable debate. If we get rid of the Toronto Waterfront Marathon it would be an outrage in my opinion.
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Post by lacquement on Feb 2, 2010 12:53:30 GMT -5
@ Slamer I fully agree with it being 905-ers complaining.
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Post by Steller on Feb 2, 2010 15:33:16 GMT -5
The city of New York literally shuts down...i mean they run the race up 1st ave and down 5th ave in Manhattan...and they get millions of New Yorkers out to watch.
I really don't get it...40,000+ people, + family, filling hotels, spending money, taking a holiday. Seems like a pretty straight forward business case.
If I was one of the city marathons of Toronto I would invite key city stakeholders for a free VIP trip to actual see and experience a serious big city marathon like New York of Boston-- maybe then...they would "get it".
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Post by francisccm on Feb 4, 2010 21:24:56 GMT -5
I still don't see how anyone can support a Marathon who doesn't care at all about elite athletes. Yes the government are being quite silly. But truthfully a Marathon that doesn't try for fast times cannot become huge. Look at any famous international marathon across the world , there is an obvious link there.
One of the Toronto marathons used a reasoning that 99% of the people who run aren't elite so whats the big deal. Whats up with that?
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Post by Steller on Feb 5, 2010 1:41:34 GMT -5
supporting elite athletes and a marathon that has the potential to be fast are 2 seperate, but somewhat related issues.
New York/Boston both support elite athletes, but neither course is fast.
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Post by pq on Feb 5, 2010 8:30:55 GMT -5
... a Marathon that doesn't try for fast times cannot become huge. The Marine Corps marathon sells out in advance and has no proize money nor, I believe, any elite athlete support. Just sayin'... |
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Post by emantsal on Feb 5, 2010 8:56:23 GMT -5
The same is true for Disney.
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