Gillis Marathon

[krs1]

2:13:52 @ Houston this morning (1:07:11 @ half)

[SI]

Great stuff. Third best debut? Fonseca and Peter Butler? Butler was supposed to have run a non serious one before his debut whatever that means.

[oldster]

Very nicely done! I believe this may be a Canadian debut record, and with a solid negative split too. Great discipline= great result. With Bairu poised to take his shot, and Reid C. ready to put up a "real" result next time out (not to mention D. Wykes, who's become the veteran marathoner of this group!), it's finally 'game-on' in Canadian men's marathoning. Onward to 2012!

[Destroyer]

great job Gilly boy! He was rolling at the end, last km was sub 3min.

[Chris Moulton]

Can anyone confirm whether this is a Canadian Debut Record, Martin and I had a discussion by email and we thought maybe Fonseca ran faster?

[1500rr]

where are results posted?

[SI]

Fonseca was definitely faster(unless he has a Geb problem which is very possible given the level he was running at in HS)-it cost or temporarily cost him a spot at Oregon I think because the coach was pissed he ran LA. The question is Butler(the Geb problem).

[oldster]

Right. I always forget Pete F.'s 2:12:20 debut. Butler's debut was, as noted, a DNF in Ottawa in 84, and I believe his first completion was around 2:14:50 His 2:10:56 was, I believe, his 3rd try.

[SI]

2:14:50 sounds too fast to describe it as a non-serious marathon. I would say the DNF eliminates him though.

[im]

1990 L.A. Marathon

1. Pedro Ortiz, Colombia 2:11:54
2. Antoni Niemczak, Poland 2:12:05
3. Peter Fonseca, Canada 2:12:07

[Steller]

was just talking to Gilly and DST -- and ( hope DST doesn't mind) -- but, quoting Dave, Gilly's biggest limitation today was listening to DST (be patient, be patient....). Gilly said he felt great the whole way, and by far the last mile was the fastest.

[1500rr]

does anybody know of Gills' kilometer or mile splits?

[BT]

Jan 17, 2010 13:22:47 GMT -5 1500rr said:

does anybody know of Gills' kilometer or mile splits?

31:50 @ 10k (3:11/km)
1:07:11 @ 21.1k (3:11/km from last checkpoint)
1:35:24 @ 30k (3:10/km from last checkpoint)
2:13:52 @ finish (3:09/km from last checkpoint)

Very impressive last segment being able to pick it up a bit where a debut marathoner would usually start to suffer.

[SI]

Interesting to note that American Brett Gotcher had a debut of 2:10:36. Damn near faster than our NR.

[djw]

Jan 17, 2010 12:43:56 GMT -5 Steller said:

was just talking to Gilly and DST -- and ( hope DST doesn't mind) -- but, quoting Dave, Gilly's biggest limitation today was listening to DST (be patient, be patient....). Gilly said he felt great the whole way, and by far the last mile was the fastest.

Ya, I thought Eric was being a little conservative with his pre-race goals. But, it worked out well. Obviously much better to run it the way he did than go out in 66:00 and die (like some of us)!
I've only imagined being able to finish up like that. That is probably the most exciting part of his whole performance today. And the patiences he showed out there is great, a very good racing quality for the marathon. You can talk all you want before the race about being patient and conservative, but actually being able to go out there and do that is a totally different and very hard thing to do.
Be great to see him really go crank one out in the fall....

[ahutch]

Jan 17, 2010 14:49:13 GMT -5 djw said:

Be great to see him really go crank one out in the fall...

It'll be interesting to see how he maps out the year with Commonwealths. I can imagine not wanting to run a marathon in India, but even if he qualifies at 10,000m, the timing (October) kind of messes up any thoughts of a fall marathon. Maybe back to the track in 2010, then try to drill one or two good ones in 2011? Isn't that what coldneck is doing?

(Of course, I haven't seen the selection criteria for Commonwealths yet -- if the standards are high enough, maybe it'll be irrelevant.)

Anyway, fantastic run, and very exciting to see. And great to see Bairu take down Hall -- a fine morning all around.

[bbw]

great job by Gillis and Bairu today, but i heard andrew smith was supposed to run the marathon also but i cant find any results on him.

Gillis's 2:13 is also 3 minutes faster then any canadian ran last year im pretty sure

[oldster]

Jan 17, 2010 15:26:49 GMT -5 bbw said:

great job by Gillis and Bairu today, but i heard andrew smith was supposed to run the marathon also but i cant find any results on him.

Gillis's 2:13 is also 3 minutes faster then any canadian ran last year im pretty sure

This is true, but we can't forget that Coolsaet and Wykes ran their times in the middle of a summer day, under championship conditions.

And re: Eric's pacing, DST's caution may have saved him from himself. Oh sure, we now know he could have gone faster, but he also could have overdone it a bit in the first half and struggled home in 2:15, wondering what might have been if he'd stuck to the plan. As it is now, he'll be full of confidence next time, and won't have to worry about what might happen if he goes out in 1:05-6. You first marathon is NOT the time to be taking chances. If you do and mess up, you're back almost to square one the next time.

[thinskinned]

Apologies to Andrew for putting this under a thread titled "Eric Gillis.." but to answer the ? above and give props to AS:

Smith, Andrew J 30 M Toronto ON CAN
Checkpoints Event 10k Mile 9 Half 30k
Marathon 0:31:50 - 1:07:43 -
Start Time Offset Pace Proj Time Official Time Overall Gender Div
00:00:01 0:05:10 2:15:22 - -
Also a negative split.

Oldster, to counter your remark about "going for it on the first one"...Brett Gotcher 2:10. Not that I really argue with that stance in general but SOME are natural born marathoners of which I believe Gillis is. Hence they can afford to risk it a bit more given adequate training.

[SI]

Jan 17, 2010 16:18:15 GMT -5 thinskinned said:

.Brett Gotcher 2:10. Not that I really argue with that stance in general but SOME are natural born marathoners of which I believe Gillis is. Hence they can afford to risk it a bit more given adequate training.

I agree with this. Take a look at Gotcher's pbs. Bairu, Gillis and Coolsaet are generally faster at all distances up to 10km.


Personal Records
1500m - 3:44.54
3000m - 8:05
5000m - 13:56.40
5000m (road) - 13:58
8000m (xc) - 23:35
8000m (road) - 23:30
10000m - 28:27.79
20k - 58:57
Half-Marathon - 1:02:09

[Chris Moulton]

Thinskinned,
I think you misinterpreted the results, 2:15:22 was the projected time, based on the website it appears that both Andrew and Tara did not finish with both of them running through half but not making it to the 30k mark.

[HHH]

Great job Eric! Congrats to you and DST.

[kmaser]

Great run for you Eric. Congrats.

[oldster]

Jan 17, 2010 16:28:39 GMT -5 SI said:

Jan 17, 2010 16:18:15 GMT -5 thinskinned said:

.Brett Gotcher 2:10. Not that I really argue with that stance in general but SOME are natural born marathoners of which I believe Gillis is. Hence they can afford to risk it a bit more given adequate training.

I agree with this. Take a look at Gotcher's pbs. Bairu, Gillis and Coolsaet generally faster at all distances up to 10km.


Personal Records
1500m - 3:44.54
3000m - 8:05
5000m - 13:56.40
5000m (road) - 13:58
8000m (xc) - 23:35
8000m (road) - 23:30
10000m - 28:27.79
20k - 58:57
Half-Marathon - 1:02:09

I don't know, guys. Having a low- 1:02 in hand changes everything. Eric really doesn't have much road racing experience either. Had he ever even raced a half before this? And isn't Gotcher quite a bit younger than Eric (not suggestion that Eric is in any way limited by his age, just that this other guys P.B.s may be way behind his training). In any case, with a 1:02-low in hand, there's not much risk in going 1:05 low for the first half. On a good day, you're going all the way (which he clearly did). On a bad day, you could still be looking at 2:12. Regardless of what we might think about Eric's longer term potential in this event (and I think you're right that it is huge, thinskinned), he would have been taking unnecessary risks in aiming for anything much faster at the half. Other than his fast 10-- which says little about marathon potential anyway-- he didn't have the proven background to try anything more ambitious. Bottom line: DST made the right call based on the info he had. Next time, Eric can go take a real shot at the Can Rec.

[Haller]

Not to play the "what if" game, ok I'm playing it.... but it looks like Eric was stuck in no man's land:

18M Gelana, Teshome ETH M25-29 25 M 2:07:37 2:07:37 1 1 1 Marathon
4M Yigeze, Zembaba ETH M25-29 25 M 2:08:27 2:08:27 2 2 2 Marathon
1M Mbote, Jason Embu KEN M30-34 33 M 2:08:58 2:08:58 3 1 3 Marathon
5M Adelo, Hussan ETH M25-29 27 M 2:09:09 2:09:09 4 3 4 Marathon
2M Kibiwott Seronei, Charles KEN M30-34 33 M 2:09:10 2:09:10 5 2 5 Marathon
6M Kiplagat, Vincent KEN M25-29 25 M 2:09:22 2:09:22 6 4 6 Marathon
3M Gotcher, Brett B Flagstaff AZ USA M25-29 25 M 2:10:36 2:10:36 7 5 7 Marathon
14M Gillis, Eric Guelph ON CAN M25-29 29 M 2:13:52 2:13:52 8 6 8 Marathon
13M Ordway, Josh Kettering OH USA M25-29 29 M 2:16:52 2:16:52 9 7 9 Marathon
9M ElMabchour, Karim MAR M25-29 27 M 2:18:27 2:18:27 10 8 10 Marathon
216 Cook, Andrew W Flower Mound TX USA M25-29 28 M 2:23:19 2:23:20 11 9 11 Marathon

Nobody within 3 minutes of him either in front or behind by the finish line.

[BT]

Jan 17, 2010 18:20:16 GMT -5 oldster said:

Had he ever even raced a half before this?

1:04:05 but I'm pretty sure it was later found to be a short course.

tinyurl.com/yz3jdg8

[SI]

Jan 17, 2010 19:09:26 GMT -5 Haller said:

Not to play the "what if" game, ok I'm playing it.... but it looks like Eric was stuck in no man's land

Makes his run even more impressive. I think we can all likely agree that, based on his half today, Bairu may want to start a bit more aggressively in his debut.

[ronb]

Great running by both Eric G., and Simon B., today, and some great coaching also...
Very nice, and I agree with the "patience" message, and not just on your first Marathon, but always in the Marathon. In fact, the same for any aerobic distance event, the longer the event, the more true is the message. If you can't even or negative split, you have gone out too fast for yourself on that day. And a bunch of people will be passing you before the finish line - hate when that happens

[oldster]

Further to the pacing question, let's not forget that Jeff Scheibler, with P.B.s of 27:36 and 1:01, and at about the same age as Eric, came back in about 70mins following an opener of 1:04ish in his debut in NYC as few years ago. Lots of guys with the same or better track times than Eric, and more road racing experience, have bitten off more than they could chew and paid dearly with big positive splits in their first attempt at the marathon.

Looking at the results, it looks as though Eric had a clear choice to make early on in this thing: take a big risk and go with the back of the lead group of 8, or stick closer to the plan and play it safe. I think he made the correct choice. I, for one, am glad we're now talking about how much faster he might have gone than about how fast he went through the half, and how badly he blew up!

[SI]

Scheibler wasn't a marathoner. That's clear. If he was, he would have gotten away with it. He wouldn't have attempted the marathon unless he thought that he was possibly a marathoner. A guy with his pedigree who is actually a marathoner likely wouldn't be satisfied with a 2:12 in any event so what's the difference if he tries going out fast? The same argument(at slower paces) could apply to anyone I suppose. I certainly don't think going out at 64 minutes was a mistake in his case(unless he didn't do the training).