University options for fall of 2010 for young Cdns

[newmember]

With the Canadian junior X Country Champs just around the corner and coaches from across Canada and the U.S. likely on hand to evaluate, interview and solicit, perhaps it is timely to initiate a thread that will be most valuable for our young Canadian athletes ie the 2010 graduates (highschool).
What are the university options, what are the best choices for their situation and objectives, what are the key questions to ask oneself and of the institutions, what are the pitfalls and risks, where are the bursaries, how much is realistically available, how much is left to be paid, what in general are the pros and cons (amongst other).
It would be great to have the input of current attendees, recent graduates, and many other interested parties all on one thread. The last few pages of the CIS Results thread actually really started this thread and I would invite everyone to start your review there. Personally as a parent of a young athlete now in University (in Canada if you wish to know), I would make a few general observations: In general, It would appear that there are a lot more good options for our Canadian kids both in Canada and in the U.S. Clearly Canadian Universities would like our kids to stay here and efforts are being made (though they remain short in financial incentives). Do you aggree?
South of the border, U.S. universities, supported by the almighty alumni buck, appear to be increasingly successful at recruiting Canadian athletes at least if one is to judge by the rather lengthy list of Canadian runners in the U.S. (ie see Cdns in NCAA). While the list of “bad” experiences for Canadians going south until recently looked like a graveyard of promising athletes denied, the evidence seems to indicate quite an improvement in this regard. Are U.S. Universities better at meeting the needs of athletes and those of foreign athletes Canada in particular? Are they less I-own-you centric?
There is enough independent info out there on the academic capabilities of each university that I would suggest we stick to the athletic and financial values for this thread. (Obviously though education is a huge part of the consideration for any student athlete).
In Canada, we just have to look at the great results achieved by a select number of Universities in both X country and Indoor track and field to have an idea which ones have established very strong programs. If there is a common thread beyond great coaching, program etc.. it might be their focus on long term individual athlete development as the first priority. Do you agree? A number of other universities seem to be taking heed and adopting a similar orientation (feel free to contradict!)
Athletics Canada, of course favours our athletes to also stay at home but other than for the very top athletes (and even at that), resources are scarce and this has been well discussed on other threads here.
The AC website did have a special section dealing on the pros and cons of staying in Canada (though at the time of writing this I cannot seem to find it). Perhaps someone can track this down and comment on it.
Additional information that would be valuable might include:
Are there other links or blogs that might have discussed this subject recently?
In Canada one of the main complaints is where does one find relevant information on bursaries (probably by Provinces or region)- Do you know of general websites to find these as a group?
For those who have gone to the U.S. any tips you might offer those following in terms of their review and evaluation?
Do you know of upcoming University athletic programs that have yet to become well recognized but that athletes should consider?
What about internationally? Are there other opportunities we should be considering?
Any other thoughts?
Here is hoping for great input from many for a thread that aims to be most beneficial for many our young Canadian athletes in their deliberation.

[Desy]

Why don't you research the different programs/schools your son or daughter wants to study, see when the campus tours are to the schools they might want to attend? Maybe there was a recruiting letter that your son or daughter received about the school and athletic program, contact the coach to maybe set up a visit to the school and to meet some members of the current team.

I think it's a choice based on personal reasons and what fits best for that person. If that doesn't work, just go to Guelph

[nscoach67]

Additionally, you might want a few things in your parent-paying-for-it head.

- How far away is the school in question (because people get homesick).
- How big the school is (because people can get lost and overwhelmed).
- How big the town is (some people like big metropolitan cities, some like university towns).
- If you're in the states, what is the head coach's feeling about Canadian National Championships like Canada Games.

Trent wrote a nice paper on the pros and cons of US vs Canada schools.

The bottom line or at least part of the bottom line should be the quality of the education.

[journeyman]

I'm happy to use this opportunity to provide some information about Concordia University in Montreal.

Our program is now 5 years old. We've come from a long way. We've had a very good record of athletes improving and running PBs, though it might be hard to tell from early results, as in the beginning, our runners were 42-44min 10k men and 25min 5k women. So when they drop 4min (men) or 2min (women) in a season, it's not reflected in the team scores. This year, however, we've had some breakthroughs that have put us in the mix, with guys going from 36 to 33min, and women going from 22:30 to 20:30. We had the second fastest rookie at CIS this year (and he is only in his third year of running, period). Obviously the next drop will be more difficult, but there has been nothing but progression from our group since the beginning. The program is sound and we are getting results. I feel confident in saying that a student-athlete that comes to us will improve.

Perhaps more importantly, our team dynamic has been great. We had a fairly large team this year, and that also contributed to the success: there was someone for everyone to run with. We had 23 women and 14 men working out regularly, with a few post-collegiate folks in the mix as well. The group is accepting, fun, nice, they study together, they go out together, they train together.

We have one Athletic Financial Award for cross country, as of this year. So obviously I can't promise money to everyone, but I do have a little bit. The Athletics Department has been increasingly supportive as our program has grown. We are designated as a club team, which is really more of an internal label. We do some fundraising and there is a team fee($100), but athletes get meal money for overnight trips, and all transport, uniforms, race entry, etc is paid for.

At this point we do not participate in CIS indoor track, although this year we will run at the QSSF meet because it is at McGill, in Montreal. The reason for this is primarily administrative at the university level: Concordia is currently undergoing a significant facilities expansion (part of which is Le Gym, our downtown base of operations) and so new programs are on hold. As the xc program grows, however, I'm confident that the results will allow us to make a case, and with some fund raising in partnership with the Athletics Dept, we hope to enter a team in CIS indoor track in the not too distance future (3-5 years). For now, this may be viewed positively by some multisport athletes who wish to focus on swimming or spinning in the winter. We can accommodate that sort of thing. That said, one of the facility projects is The Stinger Dome: essentially a dome over a soccer field. We plan to do some training here this winter, as well as work with the Fleur-de-Lys track club at Centre Claude Robillard's indoor track. So we do have an indoor track season, we just can't qualify for CIS. Yet. Check out www.stingers.ca to see the facilities.

I don't want to talk too much about myself, but you'll want to know about the head coach. I have 5 TDCAA gold medals (team--actually six as I have one for hockey as well, as a team manager) and one OFSAA silver medal (team), as well as an AUS conference team championship as an athlete. I took over the organization of the national team for Canadian Mountain running in 2006 and our world ranking for men has since climbed from 17th to 11th. All this to say I have been successful at all levels, in order of importance: local, conference, international, and OFSAA.

Our training philosophy prioritizes realistic goal setting, progression, confidence and a positive attitude. We have regular meetings to discuss our goals and keep them in mind, and I try to make sure that the athletes know exactly why we are doing each workout, and how it fits into the plan. I am not suggesting this is a unique approach, but I think it is important to come out and say it. Communication is really the cornerstone of the relationship between coaches and athletes.

Concordia has an excellent academic reputation in some key areas: John Molson Business School is world-renowned; the Fine Arts department is very good; we have several athletes in the Athletic Therapy program; we have coaches who are also professors in Engineering and History, and I used to teach in the English department (but I am currently studying law), so there is plenty of academic support.

Maybe less for the parents and more for the student-athlete: Montreal was recently named the number 2 party city in the world. As a coach I encourage discipline and a healthy lifestyle, but I am under no illusions about university athletes. So it's a good place to enjoy yourself when all the work is done.

Montreal is also a very cheap city in which to live. Rent can be as low as $400-600 a month, lower with roommates. Concordia also offers residence and a meal plan, and student-athletes can be ensured of a spot, if the right deadlines are met.

We would love to have you join our team. It's really a great time to be a Stinger: we are breaking through and you can be a part of something really special. Any interested athletes can send me a personal message here or email me [e-mail]

[tundra]

Journeyman did some personal coaching for me and if you want any information you can contact me personally via private message here.

[ronb]

Great stuff, journeyman !

[bdeacon]

I stayed in Canada and ran for UWO. While it was an enjoyable experience and I still cherish the memories from my days as a Mustang, I don't think that it was the best move athletically.

I made my decision to stay in Canada because the coaches of the day scared me away from the US. I knew that my future lay in the marathon and that this meant that my success would come in the post-collegiate days of my career. I was presented a very one-sided story that US athletic scholarships=burnout. As a result, I never really examined the options that were probably available to me. I regret this decision to this day.

I look at the athletes I competed against in the CIS and many of them stopped running after university or never lived up to their high school promise. I am left with the opinion that, at least in my day, your chances of succeeding in post-collegiate athletics were more determined by other factors than whether your university was north or south of the border.

If it were one of my children that was grappling with this very important decision, I would ask these questions:

1) What are your child's longterm goals?

2) Have they struggled with injuries in the past? What caused the injuries? Was it overtraining? If so, what type of training triggered it?

3) What type of training/racing do they respond well to? Quality? Volume? Number of races?

4) What type of coaching does your child respond well to? Soft? Cerebral? Loud? "In-your-face"?

From this, you will get a profile of what is important to have in place athletically and the type of coach that you are looking for. Next I would start to look at the athletes (US and Canadian) who are running well in their mid-late 20s. Which programs did they attend? Who were their coaches? Similarly, research who were the big high school stars 6 years ago. Where did they attend? How many of them are still racing well? Where did they go to university? Use message boards like letsrun to get a handle on this info.

This will give you a list of Canadian and US coaches who are great at producing athletes that want to continue. Next, research their programs. Do their training methods and coaching styles match the needs of your child?

Next, ask about their university's programs. Does the institution offer the courses your child wants? Is their reputation solid? Remember that it is a myth that all Canadian institutions are academically excellent and all US institutions are inferior. In the end, most employers will not spend too much time worrying about where you got your undergraduate BA or BSc. Unless you are going for a specialized program with internationally recognized standards, most employers just want to know you have an undergraduate degree. The same is NOT true for post-graduate degrees.

The last step I would force my child to do was to call as many athletes that they know who have gone to the US or stayed in Canada to get their advice. Not necessarily to ask whether they should or shouldn't go stateside, but to ask what they need to do in their first year to succeed both athletically and academically.

In the end, my decision worked out. I just regret how I came to it. If I followed the above steps, I might have gone to another school.

Cheers,
Bruce

[tundra]

Bruce.....I'll try to add more later, but I am the opposite. I went to the States and sometimes wished that I had stayed in Canada. More to follow when I can score some computer time!

[bdeacon]

Looking forward to it Tundra.

I don't necessarily regret not going to school in the US. I do regret not giving it much more thought, and I don't think that the training at UWO was well suited to my strengths. I needed a higher mileage program and lost some valuable training years running low mileage from September through to March.

Cheers,
Bruce

[tundra]

Bruce,

Your above post should be printed off by athletes and parents that are on the fence when considering the Canadian vs American route for running and education. You focus on several key points that people do not consider when thinking about attending school in the US. You must have had very good parenting/coaching/direction as a high school athlete if you were already considering what to do post-education wise in terms of running. I couldn't see three feet in front of my face and my only goal was to achieve a US scholarship as a high school athlete. Fortunately, for me my parents asked all the right questions when considering what school to choose academically. Had I followed your steps, I, too think I would have ended up going in a different direction. I don't call it regrets, but do often ponder what and where I would have done athletically post collegiately.

I was not a super-gifted athlete, but had enough up side to garner an 85% ride at a Southern mid-major school. I wasn't worried about burn-out as I was just hell-bent on getting to the south to run. Most of my high school friends stayed in Canada and I guess that I just wanted to be different and I was fortunate enough to live that dream out. Almost all of my friends quit running after university whether they are friends from the school that I attended or those who decided to stay in Canada. I also hung the spikes up after my eligibility was done citing "burn-out" as my reason. Truth be told, I didn't receive decent direction as a university athlete and did not improve all that much during that time. I also used burn-out as an excuse when I decided to make other things in life more important that running.

I honestly don't think it's wrong to give up running after university if it is not fulfilling for that athlete any longer. I wish I had stuck with it after university, but after a 12 year layoff and a now decent comeback, I have a new passion for running and now it's an intrinsic fulfillment rather than one done to impress others at what I can do. I think that is just a function of age life circumstances though. If going south to run and get an education is something as a means to an end, then your list of questions is certainly one to be followed.

I think asking lots of questions to current and former athletes at any school that one is considering to be paramount. If you are able to talk to people that have been through 4-5 years of going to school and competing for them, you will get insight from the ground level. I'm not calling all coaches liars, but they will certainly give a biased opinion on their program if they are recruiting an athlete.

If you know the route that you want to take academically, then slice the one's off of your list that do not offer programs that you are not interest in. I believe that you can run well just anywhere, but there should be several places that have coaching, academics and the team atmosphere that should be inviting to potential athletes that will allow you to run well.

If you are able, attend a meet or two where your potential schools are going to be competing. Watch the coach/athlete interaction. Does that suit you as an athlete? I probably needed a bit more of an in your face guy than I ended up with. Today, as a master's athlete, I probably need someone to tell me to cut back rather than do more. We do evolve as athletes and coaches need to recognize that as well. My old coach and I would probably workout very well in today's situation.

Are athlete's graduating from the school that you are considering? I think it is such a shame to know so many people a few credits or a year shy of graduation who spent 4-5 years at any school. Make sure your coach has some type of involved commitment to academics and supports the field of study that you are choosing. During my time, I was going through to be a teacher and the last semester of university was devoted to full-time student teaching which meant not getting to practice on time. The last thing you want as an athlete is to feel the pressure of a coaching staff getting in the way of the real reason that you are at school.

Being a long way from home as a youngster also can lead to homesickness. Does your school have a large foreign student body so that long holiday breaks can be shared with others on campus as opposed to long breaks alone sitting in a barren dorm room? Are you allowed to come home on long weekends if the chance arises?

What are your coaches' thoughts on injury prevention and how do they handle injuries when they do happen? Perhaps a morbid question, but injuries are a big part of sport and if you are not used to high mileage and all of a sudden doing a lot more than your body is used to, injuries might be a part of something that you are not used to.

Bruce you are just a few years older than I, and I did end up doing my grad work at UWO so I missed you by a couple of years. Your insight here provide the kids today with a lot of questions that need to be asked before making staying vs. going considerations. Thanks for the good read.

[newmember]

Thank you everyone who so far have provided most valuable input. I did find the document I referred to initially ie the Athletics Canada effort at promoting the advantages of going to a Canadian Universities. It is at
www.athletics.ca/files//Development/CANADAFIRSTATHLETICS_EN.PDF
It does not look like it was updated since last year but still relevant. Thoughts anyone?
The one I have is to those in the U.S., ie are you liable to pay taxes back in Canada for some of the benefits such as room and board that the AC documents allude to or do you, as an athlete in fact file a U.S. return. If so are there any advantages or disadvantages?
Again these questions are not meant to criticize one of the other but only to get all of the facts out.

[BeachBoy]

You do declare your scholarship value on your tax return but it is not taxable.
On the other hand you can claim the tuition amount (even though you did not pay the tuition yourself, it's still tuition paid) plus the education/books credit and receive a refund.
Go to the CRA website to print out the T2202 form
www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/tl11d/tl11d-08b.pdf
and T2202A form www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t2202a/t2202a-flat-09b.pdf
Complete the two forms and send with tax return.

You would only file a U.S. return only if the school charged a residence tax, because we have a treaty with the states you will have that refunded. Not every state charges this tax.

[tigger]

Hello newmember,

I think the option of choosing US vs Canadian university is there for almost every runner who can make a XC team. The major issue though, in my opinion is what does your child want to do with the rest of their life? Running is a pastime for most runners, including most university level runners. Work, however will be a profession for the rest of their lives. Few runners have the ability to make a career of it and need to place running above study in the priority process.

First priority should be to select a profession or group of professions that your child is interested in pursuing, and then do some research on the better places to follow these. I don't totally agree with bdeacon on the unimportance of where one graduates. It IS important in many cases, particularly when one is looking for a professional designation. Once you have the professional designation, and the longer you are in the workplace the less important your graduating location becomes.

Look to see if some of the universities have associations with colleges where class size may be smaller and learning environment may be more encouraging. For example, UWO is a large university with large classes in many areas, but Brescia College is affiliated with UWO, but it offers similar courses with much smaller class size.

Second priority is to evaluate the list of universities that were picked above. This process will be somewhat subjective, but if you employ a "shotgun" approach where you establish a number of criteria and then rank them for each location, and then sum the total by location you will probably get a good idea of the top two or three options. What criteria? You decide! Many of them are already mentioned....distance from home, size of classes, research facilities, ability to do post grad, or whatever other ones are important to you.

Lastly, you should try to visit the top choices to get a feel for the campus, the study climate, the coaches, etc. Most universities have student days where you can do this. It takes a bit of time and can be expensive if you live in the boonies, but it is also fruitful.

I did this with DD, a mid pack level runner and she is doing very well with her studies. Unfortunately she has suffered a series of stress fractures and has not competed for several years, but should be ready to run again this fall.

[yards]

Parent perspective-school selection-NCAA-middle distance runner

The school decision can be likened to assembling a puzzle. Puzzle pieces are assigned various sizes based on importance. Pieces can include academics; coaching; weather and training; the existing team-do they eat and are they normal; training group-will they push your athlete; training facilities and trails; and finally program results. Other variables will depend upon your area of specialization.
I would place a capital C on coaching and assign a larger puzzle piece to the coach. The coach has the most influence on your athlete. Other coaching questions; do they have assistants and does one coach handle both men and women. Coaches need quality assistants and support staff! And don’t overlook injuries to existing student athletes. An abundance of injuries can be a red flag concerning coaching methods.
Weather and training. We felt that middle distance runners should not run on hard surfaces too much. Training in the southern climes affords the opportunity for softer trail running which is healthier on the body long term. (Not to mention no slipping on ice and snow)
Training group was important. You want a program where the existing scholarship athletes are stronger than your athlete. To get faster, stronger, and wiser your athlete needs quality training partners.
Also, where does the program place competition emphasis? For example, too much indoor competition and indoor training would be viewed by a middle distance runner as a negative particularly so if they also run XC and outdoor.
Facilities. Most division 1 school facilities will simply blow you away. Amazing!
Program results. For example; how many times or years in a row has the XC team made it to NCAA championships? Number of All Americans? Etc.
I have not really touched on academics because everyone will have varying goals. One thing I will say about academics is to check out what the school is offering for academic counseling and tutors. The better programs offer mandatory study hall time for freshman, mandatory tutoring, and personalized academic counseling. The counseling is a wonderful resource and the counselors help your athlete to pick all their courses as well as guidance for subsequent study.
Health insurance. You need it for your athlete! Look into coverage’s and make sure your school is paying the health insurance premium otherwise you will have to pay about C$2,000.00 for coverage.
The “official” visit. Go with your athlete. It will cost you some money to fly there because they only pay for the athlete but it is definitely more than worth the money. Your athlete needs your parental input with the final decision. The official visit can be a whirlwind of activity and excitement, especially if you are attending a football or basketball game. My suggestion would be to visit on a weekend when there is no game to attend. I did not take my own advice though and thoroughly enjoyed several NCAA football games.
The final decision regarding which school to attend can be a very tough one to make and yet can also be very easy. Put your puzzle together and go where the pieces fit the best for your athlete. If you are lucky like we were, the official visit will help to make the final decision obvious.

[BeachBoy]

If health insurance isn't offered by the school (it is an added expense by many schools) you can purchase here, approx $50 per month:
www.gms.ca/studentplan.html
Athletes are covered for incidents while competing and training. You do need insurance in addition to the athlete insurance.
Anything paid to insurance can be used on your income tax return.

[tomhill44]

Canadian Runner-->US Scholarship.

Entering my 4th semester now at an American University on a track/xc scholarship I would strongly advise all talented Canadian athletes to really weigh out their options and not immediately sign those letters of intent without fully thinking the decision through. Obviously most Canadian/international athletes in high school usually think that heading to the US is the best option because of the rather attractive scholarship packages offered, the climate(in a lot of cases) and obviously <whether many choose to admit it or not> so you can say "yes, i'm on a full-ride at an American school). While in the recruiting process I highly recommend asking the coaches of your prospective university as many questions as possible. First off education should really be priority number one: not many people have the opportunity to get free schooling so take advantage of getting a great education paid for. Find out everything you can about the school(how big the classes are, what the campus is like), the location of the school..so on and so forth.
Second obviously is you’re going to want to get to know as much about the coaching and the program as humanly possibly. List of questions I would ask would be(many of this has been repeated above): what is your training program like(high volume, lower volume/higher intensity, high volume/high intensity....), what are your long-term goals as a coach?(do they plan to get absolutely everything out of you by the end of the four years, or is long-term success more important?) past success within the team? based on past successful athletes, where are they at now? what do you hope to get out of your athletes? find out how they respond to injuries, training schedule in general(number of hard days a week, recovery days? any days off?), number of races(the amount of traveling for each race), indoor season? average weekly mileage(if you’re an athlete that has had success on 40-50 miles a week, it probably isn’t a great idea to choose a coach that is adamant about high volume 90-100+mile week training regimes), training partners(number of men/women on the team, and how fast they are), team dynamics etc.etc.

From there take what they've told you and make sure you contact a couple of the athletes on the team and ask them their true opinion of the school, program and coaching (I would contact a graduated athlete if at all possible). I would most-definitely recommend convincing your prospective coaches to fly you down to check out the school. Anyone can talk up their school, but experiencing it first hand can be the difference between a great and an awful decision.

If all is still well and it looks like you’ve found the school that best suits your academic/athlete requisites then next think about your financial situation. I know for instance a few other Canadian athletes at American universities were suckered into the “I can offer you a 30,000$/year scholarship” without considering the many other costs of living. 30,000$ at a lot of American schools is just tuition and really means nothing in the long run(the schools tuition could be <hypothetically speaking> 5 million dollars a year, and if your scholarship only covers tuition...that’s money you’re not seeing and essentially means nothing when you’re weighing out the other costs)..in other words don’t be deluded by the appeal of the money offered, that doesn’t cover housing (5-6K per year), food(at least 2-4K depending on a meal plan or if you do your own shopping), general spending(getting set up in your room/house), insurance(upwards of 500 or more a year), flights(considering christmas+possibly thanksgiving can run you well over 2K a year), books(700-1000$ a year) etc. etc.
My scholarship for instance covers tuition+fees and housing. Even with that I spend close to 10,000$ a year which is significantly more than I would have paid staying at home and going to the local university. Make sure you account for all the hidden costs your scholarship does not cover: flights, insurance, general cost of living, etc. etc. Not to mention the lengthy amount of paperwork(general schooling paperwork+ I-20, sevis etc.), taxes(federal withholding+applying for either ITEN for SSN), and getting an american drivers license.

I unfortunately have not found a lot of success going with the American route. My coach turned out to be the exact opposite person he proclaimed to be in the recruiting process and the significant increase in volume+intensity without rest proved itself to be quite detrimental to my performance and my ability to run anywhere close to my potential. With that said though, there are many Canadians that have been/are very successful in the NCAA, so really my only advice is to be careful and don’t jump into any long-term commitment without fully considering all the possibilities.

Hope this helps!

[bcg]

Good of Mr. Hill to take the time to post his thoughts and experience. You definitely hear of a lot of Canadians who find that their dream-come-true school in the States turns out to be somewhat of a nightmare. I think you definitely want to talk to other athletes on the team, not just the coach, and as Hill said even better is former athletes, especially if they are Canadian. There are also a certain number of Canadian coaches in the NCAA who I think are more apt to "look after" their Canadian recruits than some US- born coaches might, and possibly more apt to take a LTAD approach. One aspect of a lot of US schools that is certainly fun for a Canadian athlete is that overall the US schools seem to take their sports quite a bit more seriously than Canadian schools do, and the alumni tend to be incredibly loyal to their alma mater and support the big-name sports in a huge way, so it can be a lot of fun going to football, basketball etc.- things overall are much lower key in Canada that way. (By the way I personally went to college in Canada and have no regrets, especially with the quality of the education, but I think you have to give the Americans the edge in their overall college sports passion.)

[Chris Moulton]

Nov 27, 2009 12:24:14 GMT -5 BeachBoy said:

If health insurance isn't offered by the school (it is an added expense by many schools) you can purchase here, approx $50 per month:
www.gms.ca/studentplan.html
Athletes are covered for incidents while competing and training. You do need insurance in addition to the athlete insurance.
Anything paid to insurance can be used on your income tax return.

Beachboy not sure your experience but my experiences at two different US schools once as an athlete and once as a graduate student are VERY different.

At both schools health insurance purchased from the University provider was a requirement for all International students. I purchased insurance like the one you are suggesting and was told that I needed to also purchase the health insurance from the University. I also believe it is an NCAA rule that you can not pay for a student athletes health insurance so it will have to be covered by the student athlete.

In addition the athletic related health insurance did not cover some treatments, for example my second year, I had what appeared to be a stress fracture, I was given an X-ray which did not show anything, I requested a bone scan but was told this was not necessary and that it wasn't covered under my insurance. When I returned home for Thanksgiving, I had booked in for a bone scan and sure enough there was a stress fracture, needless to say I left the school that January. I have many friends who attended other schools in the NCAA who have had better experience with their health care in terms of access to proper treatment.

[limestonemiler]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsdlSpA2GU

[rovertrunner]

When exactly will athletes be getting offers & start deciding where they will be going for University next year?

[yards]

www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=447

Link to NCAA Recruiting Calendars

Letter of Intent signing period: February 3, 2010 to August 1, 2010

Track/middle distance runners can receive the LOI before signing date BUT they can not sign before February 3, 2010.