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Post by HHH on Oct 25, 2009 23:30:48 GMT -5
Does the CIS have a rule limiting the number of international students per team? Should they have?
Are CIS schools allowed to give out full scholarships?
We have a situation here in Alberta where the coach of one of the colleges has done a great job of fundraising and then recruiting international students, Kenyans in particular. So they have been dominating the Alberta college XC scene for a few years and also the National college scene (CCAA, not the CIS).
Thoughts? Should there be a limit on this type of recruitment?
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Post by HHH on Oct 25, 2009 23:49:35 GMT -5
Does the NCAA have limits?
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Post by journeyman on Oct 26, 2009 0:24:14 GMT -5
CIS AFAs (athletic financial award) are governed by the attached rules. Awards can't be for more than tuition and fees. There are no limits on international students, as far as I know. Usually there is a cursory eligibility check, but the only jurisdiction that has any eligibility rules to speak of is the NCAA. So if they are from Kenya, it's likely they are eligible. Attachments:
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Post by HHH on Oct 26, 2009 8:22:59 GMT -5
Thanks Journeyman.
So my question is: Should schools be allowed to go out and field a team full of international students? So I coach at UofX, do a ton of fundraising and recruit the best Canadian, USA, British and Irish runners and win CIS by placing 1-5. Anyone care? Is it fair game since I have done the fundraising and the recruiting?
Just looking to get some opinions as there has been a motion presented to limit the number of international students per team here in Alberta.
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Post by krs1 on Oct 26, 2009 8:58:37 GMT -5
Same argument happens in the NCAA all the time. regarding US vs foreign athletes Instead of embracing the increased competition some look for ways to block the "unfair" competition. Those who complain about it either need to train harder to earn the scholarship $ they feel they are entitled to, or recruit better athletes (Canadian or foreign) Thanks Journeyman. So my question is: Should schools be allowed to go out and field a team full of international students? So I coach at UofX, do a ton of fundraising and recruit the best Canadian, USA, British and Irish runners and win CIS by placing 1-5. Anyone care? Is it fair game since I have done the fundraising and the recruiting? Just looking to get some opinions as there has been a motion presented to limit the number of international students per team here in Alberta. |
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Post by journeyman on Oct 26, 2009 8:59:17 GMT -5
My personal thoughts on it are that if you are in school in Canada, you should get to play CIS sports. I think it is up to the coach. There are coaches who have a win at all costs attitude, and for whom the development of the athlete is secondary. I've heard some frightening things from coaches (not in our sport specifically) on ethical issues such as this one. Such a coach might have less of a problem bringing in "ringers." Of course, those ringers still have to be in school, take classes, etc, and if they do so, what differentiates them from Canadians who are taking the same classes?
How many "internationals" are there in CIS XC right now? Sherbrooke has two guys they brought in from Burundi (Ferdinand and Leopold). How do you differentiate that from Gerych at X from Czech, or Guend, one of my guys, who is from Wisconsin? I think it borders on racism to single out the African guys (not saying that is your position, Matt!). If CIS enacted such a rule, what would the repercussions be on Canadian high schoolers who wanted to go to the NCAA? If they had a rule limiting internationals, that might actually strengthen the CIS (not saying the NCAA would modify their rules in response to anything CIS does, though).
How far do you go? The geography of it all is suspect, too. UofT can recruit from BC, but not from Buffalo? Concordia can recruit from Newfoundland but not Vermont? Doesn't make sense.
This is a really interesting question.
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Post by HHH on Oct 26, 2009 10:08:26 GMT -5
Same argument happens in the NCAA all the time. regarding US vs foreign athletes Instead of embracing the increased competition some look for ways to block the "unfair" competition. Those who complain about it either need to train harder to earn the scholarship $ they feel they are entitled to, or recruit better athletes (Canadian or foreign) Totally agree with you KRS1. And so do the athletes on my team (and we are pretty weak, pretty much all beginners). |
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Post by HHH on Oct 26, 2009 10:11:40 GMT -5
My personal thoughts on it are that if you are in school in Canada, you should get to play CIS sports. I think it is up to the coach. There are coaches who have a win at all costs attitude, and for whom the development of the athlete is secondary. I've heard some frightening things from coaches (not in our sport specifically) on ethical issues such as this one. Such a coach might have less of a problem bringing in "ringers." Of course, those ringers still have to be in school, take classes, etc, and if they do so, what differentiates them from Canadians who are taking the same classes? How many "internationals" are there in CIS XC right now? Sherbrooke has two guys they brought in from Burundi (Ferdinand and Leopold). How do you differentiate that from Gerych at X from Czech, or Guend, one of my guys, who is from Wisconsin? I think it borders on racism to single out the African guys (not saying that is your position, Matt!). If CIS enacted such a rule, what would the repercussions be on Canadian high schoolers who wanted to go to the NCAA? If they had a rule limiting internationals, that might actually strengthen the CIS (not saying the NCAA would modify their rules in response to anything CIS does, though). How far do you go? The geography of it all is suspect, too. UofT can recruit from BC, but not from Buffalo? Concordia can recruit from Newfoundland but not Vermont? Doesn't make sense. This is a really interesting question. Some solid arguments there Journeyman, keep em coming guys. I think I might be in the minority at the coaches meeting on Friday which is a bit sad really... My view is that having the Kenyans in Lethbridge has not only raised the level of running in the Alberta colleges but also in Alberta and western Canada. Alberta now has some very competitive XC races which without the Lethbridge crew, we probably won't have. I personally could care less if I ever win another XC race, I've always been more interested in being forced to push myself a bit harder to try and keep up. |
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Rory
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Post by Rory on Oct 26, 2009 14:21:07 GMT -5
If they have the academics to get into college, how is it unfair.
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Post by runningfromwhaaaat on Oct 27, 2009 13:48:01 GMT -5
If they have the academics to get into college, how is it unfair. cis, I think the 'c' might stand for canadian, not kenyadian. that's why it's unfair. |
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Post by journeyman on Oct 27, 2009 14:09:27 GMT -5
If they have the academics to get into college, how is it unfair. cis, I think the 'c' might stand for canadian, not kenyadian. that's why it's unfair. Canadian university, not canadian athlete. |
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Rory
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Post by Rory on Oct 27, 2009 14:36:15 GMT -5
First of all this isnt the CIS in question.
Second, would you find it perfectly fine if the NCAA limited the canaidan international students running for American collegiate teams? its the same prinicple... International students
Teams like Notre Dame which import alot of Canadians from Ontario and Quebec could be compared to the college in question, Providence with the Irish is another good example.
I personally think its great to have better competition... its the only way you improve. You cant make it to the international level only racing local athletes. Alot of Canadians go to the NCAA to find this level of competition, why would we quell the first sign of a improvement in the situation here in Canada.
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ess92
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Post by ess92 on Oct 27, 2009 15:50:50 GMT -5
If they have the academics to get into college, how is it unfair. This is a good point. If any STUDENT has the marks to get into University or college then he or she should not only be allowed to take the program but also be allowed to take part in the extra curriculars offered by the university. |
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Post by HHH on Oct 27, 2009 17:45:18 GMT -5
If they have the academics to get into college, how is it unfair. This is a good point. If any STUDENT has the marks to get into University or college then he or she should not only be allowed to take the program but also be allowed to take part in the extra curriculars offered by the university. That is a good point guys. |
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