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Post by pq on May 12, 2009 8:55:58 GMT -5
I thought, given the deepening Smith/Nakluski controversy brewing across the nation, the time was here to get the rules spelled out for proper racing and training etiquette.
The only one I can think of is if your training partner is wearing shiny new fancy boy racing flats, you don't take him through wet muddy fields. But if you do happen to stumble across some 6" deep puddles filled with stinking muck, you show the good graces to let him whine about it for a bit.
I think the good doctor owes it to the Canadian T&F community to expand upon his personal internal set of rules.
(for those, like me, lacking the ability to detect subtle nuance, let me be clear the tongue is firmly in the cheek)
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Post by MattMc on May 12, 2009 9:09:40 GMT -5
Some rules to get things started, in no particular order...
- stretching is a luxury for those who have nothing else to do and should only be done after you have exhausted your mileage for the day
- never pass another guy who is leading an interval at the prescribed pace
- never cut corners during a workout or race (Kiteley), especially if you are doing so to pass the guy leading the interval
- never hammer and win the last interval unless you have done your share of leading prior to that, and ESPECIALLY not if you have sat out an interval during the session
- never run faster than what the coach prescribed in the workout
- don't pull a Matthew Dube and draft off Tara Quinn Smith for 21 of 21.1km in a half marathon
- run before you leave for anywhere, and run right after you get somewhere (on vacations)
- there is always time to train-- when you think there isn't it's because you don't want it enough
- don't yap about how fast you want to be unless you are doing the work to match those aspirations (ie don't say you want to be an Olympian in the marathon if you are running 30 miles a week)
I am SURE Oldster and Bomba can improve on this list...
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Post by francisccm on May 12, 2009 10:25:56 GMT -5
- Never make up excuses for losing that aren't true after you've given your all, just to make it so that you look better. - Don't leave your buddy at a race without a ride home wink wink - Don't get competitive in workouts... and take that as some sort of indication of how a race will go. i.e I just beat you in those 400m intervals so obviously I am going to win our next 5k. - Workouts aren't really meant for real racing, racing in workouts is for people who want to get injured. With that in mind anything goes and doesn't really matter as long as they follow the above rule. Some people will feel bad on certain days and good on others, doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things.- -Don't talk the talk unless you are sure of your fitness. - The only thing that will truly go down in history is the final result. - Take the time to console your friends when they put a years worth of training in and bomb their goal race.
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Post by MattMc on May 12, 2009 10:57:32 GMT -5
-- Don't half-step someone for the length of the easy run (Asterix!)
-- Don't hammer the warm up or cool down
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Post by MattMc on May 12, 2009 11:43:02 GMT -5
Another one for Pete:
- it's never too XXX to run (insert cold, rainy, windy).
I'll never forget the phone call in Feb. from PQ-- it's too cold man, I can't run with you today. You call yourself a gristled Masters runner?!
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Post by pq on May 12, 2009 11:52:06 GMT -5
You dirty rotten son of a bitch! Next rule: What happens on the run stays on the run. That conversation should have stayed confidential. Doesn't matter it didn't happen on the run, it happened in the context of setting up a run. You've crossed the line! For the record, I WOULD have run that day. But my wife wouldn't let me.
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Post by oldster on May 12, 2009 15:24:59 GMT -5
Your wife wouldn't let you? It's out of Mattmc's pot and into the fire!
Hard to improve on this lot so far, but I'd add:
-Don't talk up a particular goal in the lead-up to a race only to abandon it a few seconds after the gun goes off.
-For the guys, don't attempt to out-kick the lead woman in the final 100m (you'll only get in the way, to say nothing of looking like a knob in the photos).
-Don't gloat when you beat someone with far superior P.B.s when he/she was clearly having an off day.
-Don't list as your P.B. a time from: A) A triathlon race; B) A course that was obviously short because EVERYONE ran a P.B. that day; or C)As course that is known to be grossly aided by a net downhill.
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Post by MattMc on May 12, 2009 15:42:15 GMT -5
-- don't BS your training volume/ times/ workouts
-- NOT drinking beer won't make you faster (enough negatives in there for you?)
-- always wave, nod or say hi to fellow runners. The blowoff = immediate blacklist.
-- if you aren't having a good day on an easy run or workout, slow down and get the volume in at whatever pace you need to
-- when injured, bring back easy running, then strides, then tempo, then intervals
-- if an injury doesn't get worse as you run and isn't worse the day after, it's probably OK to keep running on it (Mark Bayley's rule)
-- the only solution to IT band problems is to run faster (seriously)
-- Steve Boyd is one tough SOB racer
-- don't underestimate recovery time from a hard half marathon race (minumum 4 days to next workout)
-- always smile after a pb, because you might not run another one
-- don't drop out of races unless injured or ill (or in a marathon where finishing will cook the rest of your season-- learned that from Dacon)
-- don't overestimate the importance of being a HS stud as an indicator of future success (OK that's a hybrid Gladwell-Boyd rule)
-- just because you are a good 800m runner doesn't mean you'll be a better 1500m runner (and so on 5k/10k, 10k/ marathon)
-- never cut a run short for a bathroom break when there is a bush nearby
-- Yoga? Come on now.
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Post by pq on May 12, 2009 16:25:42 GMT -5
-- never cut a run short for a bathroom break when there is a bush nearby I learned this one from Matt on our first easy run together. He's since been known in the pq household as "the snowbank shitter."
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Desy
Full Member
Posts: 188
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Post by Desy on May 12, 2009 17:19:00 GMT -5
- it's ok to have sex the night before a race, just don't be out all night looking for it.
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Post by SI on May 12, 2009 18:27:57 GMT -5
If you are going to drop someone during a workout, you better bloody well mean it.
Don't look at your watch towards the end of an easy run ESPECIALLY if it means you will adjust your pace as a result. It's an easy run, idiot.
Have to agree with Matt's entire list but never dropping out unless you have a damn good reason has to be the number one rule with the never too XXXX a close second.
Have goals-just don't tell anyone but your coach what they are.
Don't talk about it-do it.
Always under promise and over deliver.
Don't tell people you are "running" 30km especially if you are telling me while you are in the middle of an extended walking break. Some guy I knew who had various nutritional aides around his waist(another rule in there) actually did that to me the other day after I told him as I ran by and he asked that I was doing 7-had to correct his assumed kms to miles.
Oh-don't describe your mileage in kms.
Make sure you know how to do basic math before you say you did x miles in y minutes.
This is a good topic.
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Post by Bomba on May 12, 2009 18:29:51 GMT -5
Now before I go on about Dr matt's rules i will add that once...and only once have I ever sat on 'people' in any event over 3km (in my books anything under a mile is a free for all, unless of course you are that much better than the competition) you must do some work or be shunned by the running community
.....and coldneck will never let me forget that one, but then again in the pack i was running with everyone had seasonal bests of 20-30 sec better than me (and personal bests of around 10) and was 35 yrs old....how was i supposed to know i was going to be able to close in around 2mins in a 5km.....hell i was surprised i was even around at 4km...
...even if u only lead a bit here and there u got to do some work.....there are always exception to every rule (egs XC where u run in single flie on the mud/snow), but on the track (unless you are 1- in bad shape or 2- that much worse than your competiton) you have to do some work. Having said that i've seen some lousy situations from runners I respect do this exact thing and then kick the last 200m. But in general they only do it once....
......i don't know the situation with derek/andrew, but I would say give Nakluski a pass on this one (unless he has a history of this???!!), but if he does it again then throw a few elbows, steal his spike laces, tackle him, make him run in a tri outfit, etc....
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cda
Full Member
Posts: 267
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Post by cda on May 12, 2009 18:45:36 GMT -5
Don't but real nice spikes until you're the fastest kid in basketball shoes.
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Post by francisccm on May 12, 2009 18:51:46 GMT -5
BTW no hard feelings for any of the stuff I was saying right guys? It was all just a little fun debate.
You guys are going to hate me if I ever coach because I will probably be telling my athletes to "sit and kick".
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Post by oldster on May 12, 2009 20:37:02 GMT -5
The snowbank shitter! A guy after my own heart.
Sticking with the scatological:
-If you shit your shorts in a race, for god's sake drop out, it's over. (Or risk being discussed-- and laughed at-- for decades by the complete strangers who witnessed your ignominy at the finish line).
-Always, always, bring paper.
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Post by tundra on May 12, 2009 20:43:04 GMT -5
*Wait at least five minutes for your running partner to show, but no more than ten.
*Be a "doer", not a "sayer".
*If it's Sunday, and there is not a starting corral, and nobody with a starter's pistol, then do not consider it a race day.
*I'm not old! I'm a cagey veteran and I have elbows to prove it.
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Post by MattMc on May 12, 2009 20:49:44 GMT -5
-- Don't Bogart the mike (School of Rock = best movie ever)
-- Don't disrespect yourself, your pbs and how hard you worked in the past (Daniels' rule)
-- Don't dis. someone because they are slower than you. There is always someone to whom your pbs seem pedestrian.
-- Always take drive over talent.
-- Trick yourself into getting out the door. The mileage is easy.
-- Don't take your eye off Bomba in a XC race: he is bound to elbow, jersey grab, spike etc (all fair game in XC)
-- Never take your eye off McCloy in the finishing chute of a XC race after trying to run him off the course
-- New talent always gets overblown, and old talent overlooked
-- Listen the Pgunns, Camerons, ristuccias, Pimms, Oldsters, Bombas, Ray Wills, McCloys out there who are probably telling you the way it is because they have seen or made the same mistake themselved before
-- Just because someone is or was a fast runner doesn't mean they know what made them fast, or what will make you fast (ie fast runners do not always make good coaches)
-- If someone has some new 'gimmicky' training technique that does not involve lots of smart, hard work, think drugs
-- Never believe anything anyone says after a positive drug test
-- If people take Ritalin and other "neuroenhancing" illegal drugs to do well in school (more than 20% of US college students at some schools) you better believe that PEDs are being used at a similar rate in sport
-- Blaise Mullins is the craziest dude, and possibly most 'talented' I have ever trained with (10km solo time trials at 10pm on the old varsity track the week of OUA XC in 31 and change and he came 2nd to RMac at OUs)
-- I Owned Coolsaet in the 90s! He didn't even make Guelph's top 7 in XC in his first year so there is hope for all you scrubs out there! Rudy! (Second best movie ever)
-- 'Good form' is meaningless and is often applied post-hoc to describe fast runners
-- Coaches become useless as soon as the gun goes off. Stop yelling!
-- If you do the work, you can own the dream. When the work stops, the dream dies. (Paraphrased from Marnie McBean)
-- Moving to the West Coast will not make you faster
-- The race doesn't care why you couldn't train last week, month or year, you just didn't.
-- Qualifying for Boston and OFSAA are the pinnacles of the sport. Only until you have achieved both can you retire with satisfaction. Sullivan's 1 for 2. Mcinnes? 2 for 2 baby! 41st at OFSAA XC in '91.
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Post by coldneck on May 12, 2009 21:04:52 GMT -5
PB, not PR
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gtown
Full Member
Posts: 139
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Post by gtown on May 12, 2009 21:15:52 GMT -5
I believe credit goes to Peter Sullivan for this, circa 2001:
Don't show the armour before the battle (sweats on until it's time)
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Post by s.bisson on May 12, 2009 22:17:29 GMT -5
its miles dammit, not kilometers.
yes i know we're canadian, but does "The Trial of Kilometers, Kilometers of Trials" sound good?
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Post by slowpoke on May 12, 2009 22:25:06 GMT -5
Matt you got way too much time on your hands! Save your strengths for the NCM post race party.
Mike
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skuj
New Member
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Post by skuj on May 13, 2009 1:02:04 GMT -5
This thread delivers.
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sdrew
Full Member
Saucony means I fear no injuries. Only really fast dogs.?
Posts: 153
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Post by sdrew on May 13, 2009 6:25:15 GMT -5
I can assure you, all to vividly, that Matt does not require a snowbank.
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Post by pq on May 13, 2009 7:56:29 GMT -5
...Matt does not require a snowbank. True that... there are several spots around Ottawa I'd be careful about straying too far off the beaten path - bush, snowbank or not. First time it happened pretty close to the Prime Minister's house. Not sure if there was any subconscious expression involved in the foul act.
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Post by nscoach67 on May 13, 2009 9:05:05 GMT -5
Another one for Pete: - it's never too XXX to run (insert cold, rainy, windy). I'll never forget the phone call in Feb. from PQ-- it's too cold man, I can't run with you today. You call yourself a gristled Masters runner?! Reminds me of a phone call I got one winter, when at the other end of the phone was another Peter talking about another Kirk, and said it's too cold to run, we're going inside. 94 laps of the Dalplex later we stopped, then I did the math and to go run 2 more laps to make 16 miles. Oh yes, my contribution: Never count the interval that you're on, and never count the last one - Sandy Pirie school of running intervals.
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Post by oldster on May 13, 2009 9:07:01 GMT -5
Dr. Matt's on a roll!
A few more:
-always, always warm-down.
-you don't necessarily need a lot of speed to be a good kicker.
-kicking is as much emotional as it is physical (thanks to the treasure chest that is A. Boileau for this one).
-it's a pretty simple sport (another from Artie B.).
-ALL of the miles in a race are equally important (i.e. not just the first and last).
And back to some rules of etiquette, these for road racers:
-don't line up in front of someone you know is going to beat you.
-don't line up in front of the top women unless you are one of the top men.
-don't try to line up in front of ME if you are older than I am (I'm getting sick of this, frankly)!
-don't worry too much about where you line up at all-- it's a long race.
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Post by mrcrosscountry on May 13, 2009 9:07:53 GMT -5
Avoid wiping with leaves if possible, it just ends up on your hands
If you gotta go bad enough, takecare of busines... you can finish the run wearing only one sock
Don't EVER run on the spot at a stoplight
Always give the finger to anyone who calls you a name, or says "nice shorts!"
DO NOT reply to anyone who yells "RUN FORREST RUN!" . Feel pity instead, because that is the most clever insult they could come up with on the spot. Feel pity because they think it is actually slightly humorous 12 or so years after the release of the movie. Feel pity because they feel they do a good impression of Jenny from the movie. Feel pity because they probably have never watched the movie all the way through (far too much boring stuff in between the comic relief of 'run forest run!' and 'life is like a box of chocolates')
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Post by oldster on May 13, 2009 9:10:36 GMT -5
Don't EVER run on the spot at a stoplight Nice one!
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Post by pq on May 13, 2009 9:16:06 GMT -5
... you can finish the run wearing only one sock... Any experienced runner knows you have several sources of emergency asswipe in your possession on most runs, starting with both socks, and including the underwear and t-shirt. The only thing you really NEED to keep on for the return trip are the shoes and shorts. Ladies excepted I suppose, but you lot have those sports bra thingies, so the running shirt can still be sacrificed in a pinch (no pun intended).
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mpd
Junior Member
Posts: 102
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Post by mpd on May 13, 2009 9:52:02 GMT -5
*Taking a leak (not in your pants) at marathon pace is a special talent but a good marathon must be able to maintain AT LEAST 3:50 per kilometer pace while doing his business on the side of the road.
(I learned that one in tutorial format from Doctor M himself...)
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