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Post by ronb on Dec 3, 2009 20:59:07 GMT -5
And never the twain shall meet... Or so said Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936), famous British poet and author. What did he know, of course I will meet Ms.Twain... He also said, "Amongst all the beautiful places in the World, and I think I have seen the most beautiful of them, Victoria ranks the highest". So, he was clearly delusional But this thread harkens back to one posted by "blahblahblah", on the CIS Results thread on page 6 - November 20th... And the point is, what the hell is going on with geographical locations of our major Canadian Championships? Who is making these decisions, and who is representing Western Canada? Of course we know that the population epicentre of Canada is in Ontario, probably a bit North and West of Toronto. But this is a big Country, and the geographical centre of OUR Country is just slightly east of Winnipeg, and that is just based on an East/West scenario, never mind going North/South. Yes, we mostly live fairly close to the USA border, but Western Canada is North of Eastern Canada. Our border in the West is the 49th parallel, with the exception being Southern Vancouver Island. And the 49th is far North of S.W. Ontario. As a quick for instance, Edmonton, with well over a million people, is over 11 degrees north of Windsor, which is a distance of over 1200 kilometres, never mind the E/W difference. So..... Here are where the Nationals have/are being hosted.... CIS Indoors (2008-2011) - Montreal, Windsor, Windsor, Sherbrooke 1/2 Marathon (2008-2010) - Montreal, Montreal, Montreal Marathon (2008-2009) - Ottawa, Ottawa Can.Juniors (2008-2010) - Abbotsford, Charlottetown, Moncton Can.Seniors (2008-2010) - Windsor, Toronto, Toronto Can.Legions (2008-2010) - Sherbrooke, Sherbrooke, Ottawa Can.Summer Games (2009-2013) - P.E.I., Sherbrooke Can. 10K (2008-2009) - Ottawa, Toronto CIS Cross Country (2008-2011) - Quebec City, Kingston, Sherbrooke, Quebec City Can. Cross-Country (2008-2011) - Guelph, Guelph, Guelph, Guelph. I may have made some mistakes, and of course please correct me if I have.... But there is one championship listed that is West of Windsor, out of 30... Windsor is far to the East of Winnipeg, which is the centre of Canada.... That is absolutely absurd... Especially when the provinces of B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland are the only ones who ARE NOT receiving federal equalization payments in the 2009/2010 fiscal year.
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Catts
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Post by Catts on Dec 3, 2009 21:25:11 GMT -5
I wonder who else is bidding for these championships, and what were the quality of the bids? Could it be less of an eastern Canada bias as implied here, and simply the best bids winning? It should be noted that at least some of these championships are awarded on 2 year cycles, hence the repeat host city. I am surprised to see that the CIS does not rotate host sites through the different conferences from year to year. And never the twain shall meet... Or so said Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936), famous British poet and author. What did he know, of course I will meet Ms.Twain... He also said, "Amongst all the beautiful places in the World, and I think I have seen the most beautiful of them, Victoria ranks the highest". So, he was clearly delusional But this thread harkens back to one posted by "blahblahblah", on the CIS Results thread on page 6 - November 20th... And the point is, what the hell is going on with geographical locations of our major Canadian Championships? Who is making these decisions, and who is representing Western Canada? Of course we know that the population epicentre of Canada is in Ontario, probably a bit North and West of Toronto. But this is a big Country, and the geographical centre of OUR Country is just slightly east of Winnipeg, and that is just based on an East/West scenario, never mind going North/South. Yes, we mostly live fairly close to the USA border, but Western Canada is North of Eastern Canada. Our border in the West is the 49th parallel, with the exception being Southern Vancouver Island. And the 49th is far North of S.W. Ontario. As a quick for instance, Edmonton, with well over a million people, is over 11 degrees north of Windsor, which is a distance of over 1200 kilometres, never mind the E/W difference. So..... Here are where the Nationals have/are being hosted.... CIS Indoors (2008-2011) - Montreal, Windsor, Windsor, Sherbrooke 1/2 Marathon (2008-2010) - Montreal, Montreal, Montreal Marathon (2008-2009) - Ottawa, Ottawa Can.Juniors (2008-2010) - Abbotsford, Charlottetown, Moncton Can.Seniors (2008-2010) - Windsor, Toronto, Toronto Can.Legions (2008-2010) - Sherbrooke, Sherbrooke, Ottawa Can.Summer Games (2009-2013) - P.E.I., Sherbrooke Can. 10K (2008-2009) - Ottawa, Toronto CIS Cross Country (2008-2011) - Quebec City, Kingston, Sherbrooke, Quebec City Can. Cross-Country (2008-2011) - Guelph, Guelph, Guelph, Guelph. I may have made some mistakes, and of course please correct me if I have.... But there is one championship listed that is West of Windsor, out of 30... Windsor is far to the East of Winnipeg, which is the centre of Canada.... That is absolutely absurd... Especially when the provinces of B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland are the only ones who ARE NOT receiving federal equalization payments in the 2009/2010 fiscal year.
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Post by ronb on Dec 3, 2009 22:02:05 GMT -5
As I said, who is representing Western Canada? Which has nothing to do with any East/West bias, but who is doing the job in bidding for these Championships in the western half of Canada? Anybody Apparently, not.... 1/30 is not a good thing...
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Post by journeyman on Dec 3, 2009 23:52:09 GMT -5
Someone has to bid for the championships. No one in the west asked, for CIS XC at least. And actually, the coaches all agreed that since the Quebec City course was so well-liked, that it should be held there every other year. Prior to that, the convention was that CIS champs should be held "in the corridor" (Windsor-QC) every other year, so 1/4 would be out west, and 1/4 out east. We recently had Victoria, and prior to that Halifax.
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Post by benjamin on Dec 4, 2009 12:19:32 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, UVic hosted CIS XC in 2007. Maybe they would rather not host something every three years, or are hosting other championships in the intervening years, or have a certain amount budgeted per year for hosting, or cannot bid on XC again yet due to administration rules. Plenty of possible reasons.
As far as other BC schools go, you can't really bid to host if you're not part of the CIS... Maybe someone in Alberta will step up.
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Post by ronb on Dec 4, 2009 13:17:35 GMT -5
Yes, I understand the points being made, and that someone has to put together a bid for these events. I also totally get that many of our events should be hosted within "the Corridor", as it just makes good sense logistically and economically for more people being able to access Championships without having to fly. And I know that many of the Championships have not yet been awarded, for the next few years. So if this thread helps encourage some people to consider bidding for these events, then that's a good thing. Western Canada is a big place, and the population is growing rapidly. Three of our six largest metro. areas (Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary) are home to close to 5 million people, and are much farther from Toronto than is St. John's, Newfoundland. In fact even Winnipeg is farther from Toronto than is most of Atlantic Canada. And there are Victoria, Regina, Saskatoon, Lethbridge, Kelowna, Abbotsford, Kamloops, Nanaimo, Prince George, Red Deer, Chilliwack, amongst Canada's 50 largest cities, and some I have probably missed. Let's get some bids together, guys...
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Post by kbutler on Dec 4, 2009 13:55:29 GMT -5
BC Athletics, with either Victoria or Vancouver hosting, is going to bid for the 2011/2012 National Cross Country Championships.
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Post by Cummings on Dec 4, 2009 17:52:01 GMT -5
U of C bid the year it was in Quebec City 2008 for XC (again, two years after it was there before), Doug put together a good one; no one wanted to come. Enough said. Any championship never coming out west is bullshit but whatever, Ontario and Quebec are the population centres and participation rates are higher when held where the most people live. I think that the championships should rotate on a 4 year cycle, 2 years closer to where people live, then one year down east, 1 year out west. It's not like bids haven't been attempted, they are being tried but get trumped more often than not.
Also of note, do you really want an XC championship in December in Saskatchewan? Or even in Calgary or Edmonton for that matter? Who the hell knows what the weather will be like?
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Post by mim244 on Dec 4, 2009 19:08:25 GMT -5
Also of note, do you really want an XC championship in December in Saskatchewan? Or even in Calgary or Edmonton for that matter? Who the hell knows what the weather will be like? That's a question I was going to raise. Canadian Juniors were in Saskatoon not so many years back, but when was the last time a prairie province (AB, SK, MB) hosted a cross country championship? I'm young enough that I honestly don't know. How big is the weather issue when it comes down to hosting an XC meet in mid-late November? Does anyone know if this played a factor in Calgary's bid, or other bids in the past? I would love to see an XC championships out west to a province other than BC, and I don't think the weather would phase me b/c I'm used to it of course. But I wonder how averse other people would be to racing in temperatures potentially well below zero and a bit of snow.
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Post by journeyman on Dec 4, 2009 19:13:53 GMT -5
Also of note, do you really want an XC championship in December in Saskatchewan? Or even in Calgary or Edmonton for that matter? Who the hell knows what the weather will be like? Edmonton bid for club nationals but was turned down for weather. It was between -8 and 2 on the 28th in Edmonton, no snow on the ground, according to Environment Canada. www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.htmlAt the risk of repeating myself: It is cross country. Who cares about the weather?
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Post by mim244 on Dec 4, 2009 19:20:12 GMT -5
At the risk of repeating myself: It is cross country. Who cares about the weather? Couldn't agree with you more, but this obviously must be playing a role if AB/SK/MB have placed bids, but haven't hosted an XC championship in how many years...19??, 18?? How big of a role should it play?
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Post by coachfaulds on Dec 4, 2009 21:08:42 GMT -5
6-8 inches of snow on the ground would ruin a national championship xc meet. You can argue that it is "cross country" so tough it out but I think that you at least want a somewhat fair course to race on and xc running is not about plowing through snow.
That said, there is potential for a lot of snow in Guelph in late November too but I guess it is not as great a probability.
I raced Canadian Jr. track in 1983 - Montreal, in 1984 - Edmonton and in 1985 - Vancouver so it was spread around nicely back then. I haven't been following the championship locations too closely over the last decade but from some of the info posted it looks like Ontario is getting more than their fair share (although the xc in Guelph next year might entice me to attempt some running in spikes again for the first time in years since it is close to home).
As for marathon locations, I assume they just look for a few large, established races and favour spring races for any potential team qualifiers so it makes sense that Ottawa has been chosen in recent years.
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Catts
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Post by Catts on Dec 4, 2009 21:29:49 GMT -5
6-8 inches of snow on the ground would ruin a national championship xc meet. You can argue that it is "cross country" so tough it out but I think that you at least want a somewhat fair course to race on and xc running is not about plowing through snow. That said, there is potential for a lot of snow in Guelph in late November too but I guess it is not as great a probability. I don't believe that weather conditions ruin any cross country meet. It's about dealing with the conditions as they are. Of the 6 national xc champs I've run, 2 had snow (Montreal in '95-'96), 1 had freshly melted snow (Moncton in '02), and 2 had a lot of rain (Vancouver in '97, Toronto '03 or '04). I don't think it ruined any of the races, it just made them more interesting. Snow is the reality of racing outdoors in Canada from November to March. Everybody has to deal with the same conditions, so the race is fair. The best will always rise to the challenge.
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Post by Cummings on Dec 4, 2009 21:59:01 GMT -5
The altitude in Calgary also deters people from racing here, otherwise it's an awesome place to run. Well then, if no one is scared of the torrid prairie winter, then come on, let's get it rolling. National XC champs in Saskatoon in December? That would be a party.
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Post by rocknroll on Dec 4, 2009 22:58:09 GMT -5
The altitude in Calgary also deters people from racing here, otherwise it's an awesome place to run. Well then, if no one is scared of the torrid prairie winter, then come on, let's get it rolling. National XC champs in Saskatoon in December? That would be a party. Now that would be a blast, it was about -15 today here in saskatoon, light snow, and the trails were great! The only problem about holding a national xc champs or cis champs here in sask is that to find a really good/tough course you have to go at least half an hour out of saskatoon or regina, which wouldn't be very appealing to a lot of people. As for Calgary, I don't think the altitude really affects you for the amount of time that your there. I've only raced there once and I didn't feel the altitude change at all, and it was actually one of the best races i've ran. I think Calgary would be a great place to host one of the national cross races, cis or club.
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mae
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Post by mae on Dec 5, 2009 0:05:34 GMT -5
Besides the expense of traveling, it would be really cool to "share the wealth" of champion locations. Obviously it takes alot of work and organization and perhaps clubs in the West have not wanted to take it on in recent years...but it would be fantastic if some of the strong clubs were keen. Calgary has a great track scene and there are several communities in BC that could also do a great job...my vote would be into the interior, with Kamloops with a High Perf. Centre, strong club leadership, a very sport-oriented community ("Tournament Capital of BC") and awesome facilities. I would love to see something happen in Kamploops i.e. Canadian Track and Field Champs. The facilities are A+ with an indoor track directly beside the outdoor track and usually dependable dry/warm weather in the summer. With a couple local stars (Gary and Dylan) in addition to other strong throwers (Jen Joyce, Sultana, etc) I bet the community would rally in a way that larger cities don't. Although not a XC mecca, the BC interior does usually have pretty mild and short winters...and having raced 8 XC championships in Quebec, Ontario and BC I can't remember one time that wasn't kind of miserable for weather/conditions so I don't think we should really preclud any location for weather aside from the far far North. But right now my vote is BC interior! Too bad the population density (lack thereof) makes it more challenging but you never know!
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Post by mim244 on Dec 9, 2009 14:42:28 GMT -5
The question still begs, when was the last time a prairie province held a National XC championships?!?!?! Someone's got to have an idea, c'mon you old folks
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Post by rocknroll on Dec 9, 2009 19:19:02 GMT -5
Looks like you got yourself a job in a few years Matty, bring it to good ol saskabush, maybe we'll get some -34 with the windshield like yesterday.
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Post by saskatchewan on Dec 9, 2009 20:10:59 GMT -5
I'll have to disagree with the snow ruining xc comment. Snow didn't ruin the 1992 WXC in Boston, or the 1989 WXC in Stavanger.
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thekid
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by thekid on Dec 9, 2009 20:56:29 GMT -5
Real talk.
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Post by mwilson on Dec 9, 2009 22:58:35 GMT -5
The question still begs, when was the last time a prairie province held a National XC championships?!?!?! Someone's got to have an idea, c'mon you old folks Edmonton in 1970, and before that Calgary in 1967. National XC has never touched down in SK or MB. www.arrs.net/NC_XCCAN.htm
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Post by mim244 on Dec 10, 2009 0:53:42 GMT -5
The question still begs, when was the last time a prairie province held a National XC championships?!?!?! Someone's got to have an idea, c'mon you old folks Edmonton in 1970, and before that Calgary in 1967. National XC has never touched down in SK or MB. www.arrs.net/NC_XCCAN.htmInteresting. Edmonton had BY FAR the slowest winning time of the 33 years the Men's championships was a 12k (almost 1:30 slower than the next slowest). Maybe that's why we haven't held it since then! Ha
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Post by journeyman on Dec 10, 2009 10:27:36 GMT -5
Interesting. Edmonton had BY FAR the slowest winning time of the 33 years the Men's championships was a 12k (almost 1:30 slower than the next slowest). Maybe that's why we haven't held it since then! Ha It's xc. Who cares about time? As far as CIS goes, perhaps there are more politics with respect to awarding of championships, but the AC championships should rotate through each province, providing there is a group willing to organise. It would be interesting if each provincial branch, or even region, were *required* to host a national championship in a certain time frame.
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Post by blahblahblah on May 7, 2010 9:02:03 GMT -5
Calgary snares 2011, '12 senior national track championships
Herald News Services May 7, 2010 3:11 AM
Athletics Canada announced Thursday that Calgary will host the Canadian senior track and field championships in 2011 and 2012.
The 2011 event will serve as the world championship selection trials, and the 2012 competition will serve as selection trials for the Olympic and Paralympic Summer Games in London.
Calgary's bid came out on top following a record number of bids to host the events. The Calgary Track Council, the umbrella organization of all track clubs in Calgary, spearheaded the winning bid.
"We aggressively pursued this opportunity, and the team put together an excellent bid package to secure the events. We are grateful to Athletics Canada for the opportunity," said Doug Mitchell, chairman of the Calgary Sport Tourism Authority. "Sport is at the very heart and soul of who we are as a city."
The 2011 and '12 championships will be held in June at Foothills Athletic Park. © Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald
A nice turn of events...
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Post by Chris Moulton on May 7, 2010 9:23:56 GMT -5
Not to mention Vancouver getting National XC for the next four years as well.
Keeping with the western theme, the 2011 through 2014 Canadian Cross Country Championships will take place in Vancouver, British Columbia. Jointly hosted by the Ocean Athletics Club and the Hershey Harriers Athletic Club, the cross country championships are making their return to Vancouver having successfully taken place there in 2005 and 2006. "I'm very pleased to hear that Vancouver has been selected as the site for the Canadian Cross Country Championships," said Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson. "We've shown through the 2010 Winter Games what great hosts the people of Vancouver can be, and we look forward to welcoming Athletics Canada and all of the athletes, coaches, and managers to Vancouver for the upcoming Championships."
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Post by Chris Moulton on May 7, 2010 9:26:23 GMT -5
Here is the full article
Calgary, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver to host Canadian Championships
Thursday, May 06, 2010
Ottawa – Following a record breaking number of bids to host Athletics Canada Canadian Championship Series events in 2011 to 2014, Athletics Canada announced today that Calgary, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto and Vancouver will all host Athletics Canada Canadian Championship Series events next year.
“The response to, and enthusiasm, for the call to host Athletics Canada events was unprecedented. Certainly the quality of bids has never been better, the committee tasked with reviewing the proposals had many difficult decisions to make,” said Joanne Mortimore, Athletics Canada Chief Executive Officer. Mortimore added, “They worked diligently to ensure the best possible hosts in the upcoming years for our athletes, volunteers, officials, and the spectators in the stands and television audiences.”
The Canadian Senior Championships are heading west to Foothills Athletic Park in Calgary, Alberta for 2011 and 2012. Both editions will bring added excitement as in 2011 the championships serve as the World Championships Selection Trials and the 2012 event will serve as the Olympic & Paralympic Games Selection Trials. “We are thrilled to be awarded the 2011 and 2012 Canadian Track & Field Championships,” said Christine Laverty, President of the Calgary Track Council which will serve as the Host Organizing Committee for the Championship events. “This is a great day for Calgary, and for the track and field community. The recognition from Athletics Canada, the energy, interest and support that goes into organizing events of this magnitude, and the community legacies, facility upgrades and new partnerships that are a result, represent a win-win-win for everyone. It is indeed a day to celebrate!”
Keeping with the western theme, the 2011 through 2014 Canadian Cross Country Championships will take place in Vancouver, British Columbia. Jointly hosted by the Ocean Athletics Club and the Hershey Harriers Athletic Club, the cross country championships are making their return to Vancouver having successfully taken place there in 2005 and 2006. "I'm very pleased to hear that Vancouver has been selected as the site for the Canadian Cross Country Championships," said Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson. "We've shown through the 2010 Winter Games what great hosts the people of Vancouver can be, and we look forward to welcoming Athletics Canada and all of the athletes, coaches, and managers to Vancouver for the upcoming Championships."
The nation’s capital will play host to the 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 Canadian Marathon Championships. This event has been a part of the Ottawa Race Weekend since 2000 and Athletics Canada is pleased to be partnering with the organizing committee for the next four years. “On behalf of the Organizing committee of the Ottawa marathon I would like to say how pleased we are to continue to host the Canadian marathon Championships for 2011 – 2014. Ottawa has a proud tradition as one of Canada’s premier marathons and a favorite destination for Canada’s elite athletes to toe the line with many of the world’s best marathon runners,” said John Halvorsen, Race Weekend President. Halvorsen added, “We look forward to hosting this event and providing the best possible experience for our Canadian elite marathon runners.”
Beginning in 2011, and through to 2014, Canada Running Series will host a pair of Athletics Canada’s annual Canadian Championship Series events. The Scotiabank 21K de Montréal, QC will serve as the host event for the Canadian Half Marathon Championships while the Oasis Zoo Run in Toronto, ON will be the site of the Canadian 10km Road Race Championships. "Canada Running Series is delighted with the news that Banque Scotia 21K de Montreal and Oasis Zoo Run have been awarded the Half-Marathon and 10km championships for the next 4 years (beginning in 2011). We are looking forward to a strong, dynamic and innovative, long-term partnership with Athletics Canada that will allow us to advance road running in Canada and give Canadian distance athletes something to run for. The 4-year commitment will really give us the opportunity to build something significant for the Canadian road race community," said Alan Brookes, Canada Running Series Director.
Earlier this week at a press conference in Sainte-Thérèse, Québec; the latter was announced as the winning bidder for the 2013 and 2014 Canadian Junior Championships. The championships will be held at a new facility being built this summer in the community located 30 minutes north of Montreal.
Announcements will be coming next week on the winning organizing committees for the 2011 and 2012 Canadian Junior Championships as well as the 2013 and 2014 Canadian Senior Championships.
2011 – 2014 Canadian Championships
CDN Championship event Host Editions Notes Senior Championships Calgary, AB 2011 & 2012 2012 will serve as Olympic Trials Senior Championships TBD 2013 & 2014 Announcement next week Junior Championships TBD 2011 & 2012 Announcement next week Junior Championships Ste-Thérèse, QC 2013 & 2014 Staged at newly built facility Cross Country Championships Vancouver, BC 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 Marathon Championships Ottawa, ON 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 Held in conjunction with Run Ottawa Race Weekend Half Marathon Championships Montreal, QC 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 Held in conjunction with 21K de Montréal 10km Championships Toronto, ON 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 Held in conjunction with Zoo Run
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Post by ottlcoach on May 7, 2010 10:00:26 GMT -5
With regards to CIS champs, track specifically, I remember asking my coach as an undergrad why it was never out west (it was on a McGill, Sherbrooke, Windsor swing at the time). The answer I got was that there was a pool of money to help cover travel costs for the various schools. With the OUA contibuting the bulk of competitors (on average) it made more financial sense to keep in in the windsor/quebec corridor and fly others in. I would assume this is still the case. It was 2002 when I was given the reason.
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Post by ronb on May 7, 2010 10:14:39 GMT -5
That would likes some great forward thinking and action by Athletics Canada --- well done ! The idea of having a host group for more than a year or so seems to me to be a very positive step. Sponsors and media groups will have a lot more to buy into, and the public interest in those cities should be able increase year after year. Does anyone know if Athletics Canada has a major airline sponsor? I'll bet WestJet could be talked into offering some great deals for all those cross-canada trips, expecially if they were able to buy into a package of some kind. Marketing guys --- get on it I don't know what the CIS Indoor rotation looks like, but I have some great video (amateur stuff) of the Nationals in Winnipeg and Edmonton from the 1980's.
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Post by ronb on May 7, 2010 10:19:21 GMT -5
How about a major hotel chain also? Should be an easy sell, with the size of the cities that are doing hosting, there must be lots of potential hotel chains that have properties in Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, Ottawa, etc... The way we used to do it, when hosting, was go to various hotels, negotiate the very best possible rate, and then go back to them, and offer to pay a few bucks more per room, with the extra money going towards the costs of putting on a better Meet for the athletes. Should still work...
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Post by ronb on May 7, 2010 10:53:26 GMT -5
They also captured the 5 largest cities in Canada --- very nice. A good move towards 2020...
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