Catts
Full Member
Posts: 181
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Post by Catts on Feb 5, 2010 9:19:33 GMT -5
I disagree. I don't think major events attract tens of thousands of participants because some fast guys and girls are running. They attract large numbers of participants, which allows them a budget for the elite athletes. You need the people before you can bring in the elites. I support the Scoitabank event because I think it's a better event overall, but I've been surprised by the number of people who prefer the Goodlife event. The majority of people I've spoken to like the Goodlife course better, which sways them on the event. They don't really care that 3 guys broke 2:10 there last year. I still don't see how anyone can support a Marathon who doesn't care at all about elite athletes. Yes the government are being quite silly. But truthfully a Marathon that doesn't try for fast times cannot become huge. Look at any famous international marathon across the world , there is an obvious link there. One of the Toronto marathons used a reasoning that 99% of the people who run aren't elite so whats the big deal. Whats up with that? |
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Post by emantsal on Feb 5, 2010 9:32:35 GMT -5
Agreed. I do think that a good elite field creates a buzz, particularly if they're Canadian. Ottawa having the Canadian national championships probably brings in a few recreational runners, as do the 10k road championships, but generally the correlation is quite low. Most people would still run Chicago even if no one broke 2:10 or 2:15 there.
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Post by lynnhoj on Feb 5, 2010 14:55:29 GMT -5
I ran both marathons last year, so I got a good comparison of the two.
Pre-race Expo
Scotia was larger (more and larger booths) in the Direct Energy Bldg
Goodlife was in the much smaller, former Sheraton movie theatres in the basement - felt like Boxing Day shopping at the Eaton Centre.
Organization
Scotia slightly ahead. Scotia's website is more professional/organized. I didn't know Goodlife had pacers until I got to the starting line - couldn't find any mention on the website.
Route
Goodlife is faster - avg slight downhill (cept for the big down/uphill around York Mills, smaller dip south of Lawrence) vs Scotia = mostly flat. Goodlife tends to have cooler weather too.
Scotia has more "dead" areas - when the half and full split up near the old TipTop factory until the Beaches and the stretch along Eastern Ave
Goodlife's dead areas include the part after Casa Loma and along the Rosedale Valley road and the Bayview extension. Much more interesting route.
Start
Scotia with the full and half starting at once is way more crowded/noisier - starts way earlier in the day than Goodlife.
Goodlife's full start reminds me of a lot shorter races I've been in - more subdued/low-key.
Finish
Scotia ends running up Bay St to Queen, running in the shadows of huge bldgs on either side. Lots of spectators in the last 100m but ppl @ the finish line can only see runners within the last 1/2 block due to Bay St angling to the left @ Queen.
Goodlife runs up University and 3/4 around Queens Park. Almost impossible to see runners coming in cept for last 100m. Why don't they end the race at the south end of Queens Park??? Sparse crowds along University and eastern half of Queens Park. West side of Queens Park the crowds appear.
Even though Goodlife has been around longer in one form or another, I expect Scotia to become the fall marathon because money talks and City Hall listens to talking money - but the route needs work.
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Post by francisccm on Feb 6, 2010 12:58:18 GMT -5
Point taken guys on somethings. But which is more famous Marine corps or a Marathon major? Also I feel that race is one of the exceptions. Don't tell me that New York or Boston don't want a fast time regardless of their course, we are not talking world records here. I am not talking about the course potential either. But anytime you bring that many elites for a match up you expect something to happen and I am sure that they wouldn't mind a course record now and then and having a time under 2.10 run year after year. The media association with elites is massive which is one of the main reasons I am citing for my argument. I think the media attract people to run a race because of the feeling of prestige associated.
Current preference really means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Neither of the marathons are even close to large on the world stage. We are talking about the ability to grow into a Marathon with 30,000 to 40,000 people. Which is one of the main reasons that the government wants only one Marathon. My point is that this cannot happen with no prize money or elites.
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Post by saskatchewan on Feb 6, 2010 13:46:05 GMT -5
Point taken guys on somethings. But which is more famous Marine corps or a Marathon major? Also I feel that race is one of the exceptions. Don't tell me that New York or Boston don't want a fast time regardless of their course, we are not talking world records here. I am not talking about the course potential either. But anytime you bring that many elites for a match up you expect something to happen and I am sure that they wouldn't mind a course record now and then and having a time under 2.10 run year after year. The media association with elites is massive which is one of the main reasons I am citing for my argument. I think the media attract people to run a race because of the feeling of prestige associated. Current preference really means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Neither of the marathons are even close to large on the world stage. We are talking about the ability to grow into a Marathon with 30,000 to 40,000 people. Which is one of the main reasons that the government wants only one Marathon. My point is that this cannot happen with no prize money or elites. its is an interesting debate as to whether having an elite section in a road race strengthens the overal race (through increased media attention, etc). Not sure i know the answer. I would be inclined to say yes, provided that the race organizer successfully leverages the status of the elites to publicize the event, etc. This is why i would think having some local talent, or at least talent that they average runner can identify with is likely a greater plus for a race organizer then having some generic internationals that no one has ever heard of. Just my $.02. interesting topic. |
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Post by lynnhoj on Feb 19, 2010 15:14:44 GMT -5
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Post by francisccm on Feb 20, 2010 2:19:00 GMT -5
Fantastic news !!!! I really hope marathoning in Canada benefits from this somehow.
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Catts
Full Member
Posts: 181
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Post by Catts on Feb 20, 2010 8:08:26 GMT -5
I wonder what weekend they'll go with?
The first weekend in May is Sportinglife (one of Allan's races)
Mother's Day is Mississauga
The weekend after Victoria Day is Ottawa
Throw in there the long weekend, and you have your four Sundays in a month. Either they'll go head to head with another event, or they'll host it on the long weekend.
Perhaps Jay and Al negotiated to have Sportinglife switch dates, freeing up the first weekend in May?
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Post by im on Feb 20, 2010 8:57:10 GMT -5
Now you are going to hear complaint's that Yonge St. is going to be closed for two weekends in the month of May...
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Post by twofeet on Feb 20, 2010 10:22:27 GMT -5
This is interesting:
"In return for the gesture, the City of Toronto will put its marketing muscle behind the half-marathon of GoodLife, which is billed as a fun event, and the full marathon of the Scotiabank, a competitive race that draws international running stars and raises an equal amount for charity."
I wonder how much "marketing muscle" will be involved, and whether we'll hit a point where Scotiabank becomes a marathon-distance-only event and GoodLife abandons the full.
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Post by SI on Apr 21, 2010 7:32:36 GMT -5
I wonder what weekend they'll go with? The first weekend in May is Sportinglife (one of Allan's races) Mother's Day is Mississauga The weekend after Victoria Day is Ottawa Throw in there the long weekend, and you have your four Sundays in a month. Either they'll go head to head with another event, or they'll host it on the long weekend. Perhaps Jay and Al negotiated to have Sportinglife switch dates, freeing up the first weekend in May? As usual, the typical Toronto types have forgotten that the whole world doesn't revolve around them: m.torontosun.com/News/Toronto-et-GTA/13657431.1?fullscreen#news |
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tb400
Junior Member
Posts: 104
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Post by tb400 on Apr 21, 2010 10:08:19 GMT -5
After all the discussions and negotiations, how could nobody have known the potential conflict with the Mississauga Marathon? What a fiasco.
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Post by slamer on Apr 24, 2010 0:43:42 GMT -5
SI, as usual you have forgotten that you make dumb ass comments. What is wrong with you? Do you realize that one of these conflicts are with another Toronto race? How does this mix in with your "Toronto thinks their the centre of the universe" bias? |
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Post by SI on Apr 24, 2010 4:06:47 GMT -5
It's a joke. Maybe not the knee slapper you think it is. I was hoping to get a rise out of some Toronto type and you stepped right up. Thanks! Toronto does deserve its rep, though, after the army/snow storm fiasco. Carry on.
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I still don't see how anyone can support a Marathon who doesn't care at all about elite athletes. Yes the government are being quite silly. But truthfully a Marathon that doesn't try for fast times cannot become huge. Look at any famous international marathon across the world , there is an obvious link there. 
