lefty
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Posts: 157
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Post by lefty on Sept 13, 2008 23:32:28 GMT -5
www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcnews/1999spring.pdfPages 30 - 31 include a little sum-up of Ovett's training and his attitude towards it by his longtime training partner, as well as a table showing what a typical Ovett training week looked like in the winter, spring, and summer months.
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Post by Bomba on Sept 14, 2008 13:11:43 GMT -5
.....i also own 2 copies of his (well Harry Wilson's training book), Wilson's 'Dialogue' book and the ovett autobio and bio....Wilson's book IMHO is the holy grail of training books.....easily the most influential piece of training literature I have come across...(for 800-10km)...ther BMC article nicely filsl in some holes between Ovett's day to day and Wlson's ideas....
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woz
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Post by woz on Sept 14, 2008 23:34:59 GMT -5
Bomba, would you sell me one of your copies of Wilson's book?? (he asked cheekily). I have been searching for a while now and they don't come around often. I'll be at the Pinetree Classic next week. Ovett is my favorite runner and I was hoping he was going to be the CBC's colour man for the Olympics this year. He used to do his hill reps in front of my wife's house when she lived in Brighton, but unfortunately she doesn't remember much about it... Cheers Warren
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lefty
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Posts: 157
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Post by lefty on Sept 15, 2008 12:08:39 GMT -5
Would anyone knowledgeable care to comment on Wilson's use of "crash training" (i.e. the weekend of intense training done at Merthyr Mawr in the "Ovett" video on Youtube)?
When/why/how they do this, success of the approach, etc.
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Post by ddublin on Sept 15, 2008 17:55:47 GMT -5
I once went on the BMC Mawr weekend when I was about a 13 year old, when Harry and Steve used to take sessions etc. We stayed nearby in a halls of residence and arrived Friday afternoon. We were all introduced and put in groups depending on our ability. I was of course in one of the slower groups having run about 4.30 1500. We all went for a late afternoon run of various distances again due to the groups ability. I remember running across streams and in the valleys. We then had an evening meal and was given speeches by well known athletes. Saturday involved 3 sessions, easy run in the morning, the infamous sand dunes in the afternoon, made up of several killer reps and then I believe a gym/drill type exercises early evening. We then had quizzes and a film, evening meal to finish off the day. Sunday I think was an long morning run followed by an afternoon of stretching/core work etc. I loved it and our club group drove the 6-7 hours and thought it was worth it. That was my only time, although my Father took his International athletes on several occasions. In them days for a kid of my age the BMC/AAA/ESSA standards were very tough. I always managed the bronze badges but the gold/silver always eluded me. I managed some gold/silvers some 17 years later as a Senior runner but only when I moved here and thought that trying to get the badges once Id moved seemed inappropriate. Somewhere I have photos of us running up/down the dunes. Once of my best memories of Mr Ovett was the night of the Liverpool Hysel stadium disaster, not sure what year it was. I traveled to Barnet copthall stadium for a BMC meeting, Steve was in the 1st heat, I was in the 20th on a Wednesday evening. No rabbit could pace him and he ran 3.36 cruising. I was so inspired I went from a Pb of 4.17 to 4.10, all the way home our group couldn't stop talking about being with 5 meters of Steve Ovett in lane 3 cheering him on, ah memories. I was also lucky enough to be a Crystal palace when Cram out leant Ovett. I was sat at on the finish line and the atmosphere was immense with the stadium split on who they were cheering for, my mate was Crams supporter, I was Ovett, I never talked to my mate the whole 2 hour train journey home! Cheers DD
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Post by oldster on Sept 15, 2008 19:19:24 GMT -5
Ddublin, you got any more where this came from? I could read this stuff all day!
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Post by ddublin on Sept 15, 2008 22:17:36 GMT -5
Oldster, I have many. Here are a couple. I joined Cornwall AC in 1990 which had 4 Senior men in the World top 35 in 1 world x in the same year. The guys used to take us local lads to races, a. for fun, b. to drive home their new car! Jon Richards European Junior 5K champ and 3rd in WX at Gatshehead used to take me to races full of who's who of British running. Jon invariably would win but would have to break the Course record to Win the car. He drove home the Winners car, I drove home his last Winners car! At Swansea International 10k one year, 2.11 Marathon Dave Buzza took me for the trip. I stayed in the best hotel with all the top athletes. Dave had put pressure on me to finish in under 31 minutes because Brendan Foster and Steve Cram were behind the organization, and he had to justify my freebie trip. I busted a gut and the only time I have ever been sick after a race, sprinting for the line in 30.50 from 31.29. After the race, Brendan and Steve went around the room shaking hands with the top guys, looked at me, and carried on without shaking hands. I was just a nobody, the other guys all ran sub 29. I didn't really care I got a pb and free accommodation and food, transport etc. A class athlete Paul Evans won a race, won the car and was more interested in my result after the race. On another freebie trip with Buzza I knocked 25 seconds off my pb over 10k, Paul who was introduced to me at the hotel the night before saw me after the finish and asked how I did. I did not know he had Won and got the car, Paul was more interested in that I got a pb, saying as much that He would be F..king happy with a 25 second pb, classy man. Paul went on to run great marathons. I was at the National x when Julian Goater won by the largest margin ever, 2 minutes. 3 laps of Londons Parliament fields he destroyed a brilliant Field, I ran with a friend in the Senior race, although I was a junior at the time. I remember hearing a roar at the 2nd lap of my 3 and saw Gaoter storm down the finishing straight. Any British XC would tell you thats the race they would crave to win, if you do, your a hero, and in them days crowds did flock to watch. the National has now lost some of its appeal due to the World X trial, but Ive seen one national x at Luton consist of the likes of Tim Hutchings, Dave Lewis, Dave Clarke, Tony Simmons, Bernie Ford, Mike McLeod, John Solly, Stevie Binns and many more. If anyone has the old small copies of the Athletics weekly they are highly sought after. I remember in 94 when I ran 2.25 for the marathon and 66 for the half only just ranking in the top UK 75. The one thing I learnt from the likes of Jon and Buzz is that when they returned to the club night training just like any of us lesser athletes they would encourage us all. Being sponsored they gave away lots of their kit/shoes. They did it on a rotational basis. making sure everyone got something. I like to think that I have taken that on my long journey and try to help others as I was helped by those great guys. Last note, Buzz still races, I beat him for the only time 2 years ago, and Jon is a bald over weight banker who couldn't run 5 miles today but is envious of my being able to train on a daily basis, a lesson for us all. Cheers DD
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lefty
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Posts: 157
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Post by lefty on Sept 15, 2008 22:53:31 GMT -5
Wow.
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Post by oldster on Sept 16, 2008 19:39:25 GMT -5
Simply brilliant, DD. As an avid reader of AW in the mid-80s (in my university library, on Friday afternoons, instead of reading political economy), I remember all of the guys you refer to. (Remember the former French Foreign Legionaire Steve Tunstall? He took some big scalps on the turf during his little turn at the top, if I recall). I actually only ran in the UK once, back in '90, I think it was. I spent two weeks as a guest of a guy from Coventry Godiva, Moorcroft's club. (I recall a story about Moorcroft's dad being able to watch him workout on the club track from the nearby office building where he worked.) I raced 3 times (1 road, 2 track) over the two weeks I was there, and actually ran pretty well, beating some of the best Tipton guys in the road race. I got written up in AW that week but never kept the copies. I recall being blown away by the sheers numbers and depth in the all-comer meets I ran. The last one I did, near London, had something like 10 heats of 1500s all going at least 4:03-04, and down to low 3:50point on a very windy evening. I was also impressed by the age range of the competitors-- from little kids to 60 year olds. And I really appreciated, of course, the post race hospitality (my still standing single evening record for Guinness consumption-- 9, and that's for an English evening, 6 to 11:30-- was set on that trip!) Must have been a truly remarkable time and place to be a distance runner. I'm dying of envy over here. Tell us another one!
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Post by ahutch on Sept 16, 2008 21:07:46 GMT -5
I was in England from 1997 to 2000, when, from their point of view, distance running had already pretty much gone down the tubes. Still, from a Canadian perspective, the scene was incredible, with depth we could only imagine. As a running geek (reading AW), I knew all the "top" names. When I ventured out onto the roads for the first time, I wasn't surprised to get blown away (I ran 23:54 for a legit 5 miles, finishing a distant 11th) -- I was surprised that, of all the guys who smoked me, the only one I'd heard of was Rob Denmark. The rest were just your bog-standard sub-30 10k guys, decent club runners.
The intensity of club competition was amazing, at the various road relays and so on. That's one of the things that kept people in the sport for so much longer than is standard here. I remember running a British League match where the two 1500m runners for my club (Belgrave) were myself and Paul Evans. Paul had already won the 5000m in low 14mins, and agreed to double back because we were short on distance depth and really needed the points. At the time, I wasn't sure why an ex-Chicago Marathon champ would bother running a rinky-dink league meet. But it certainly gave me plenty of incentive to make sure I didn't get kicked down by a 39-year-old marathoner in a tactical 1500m. (It was close.)
And, back to the thread title, I had the chance to train with Harry Wilson for half a year, until injury put me out for a few years. I still have the detailed handwritten programs that he mailed to me once a month, specifying exactly what I was to do every day (make me an offer for them, Bomba!). He drove down twice a week to watch me work out (on my own, while my university team trained elsewhere, to relate this to another thread). He often judged my recovery time by heart rate, so I started wearing my heart rate monitor to work out in. But he wasn't into it -- I'd show him the display of my monitor, but he'd still make me stand there, with his fingers on my jugular, until he felt I was ready to go again.
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Post by oldster on Sept 16, 2008 21:21:43 GMT -5
Jesus, why are we just hearing these stories now!?
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Post by ddublin on Sept 16, 2008 22:38:49 GMT -5
Steve Tunstall, another great name. In 94 or 95 I got selected by the South West Counties too run the WX trials at Durham on the back of Buzza getting injured 2 days before. I woke up on the morning of the race knowing and panicking that if I did not run 5 minute mile loops of the 7 I could and would be lapped live on the BBC. Knowing all my family and work colleagues would be watching I ran on sheer terror, making it around to 6 and half laps before Tunstall who won, finished. Back at the hotel we watched the repeat and a horrified team mate of mine watched himself finish whilst the fully track suited Tunstall was being interviewed by the BBC. I think I was a lowly 73 out of about 80 or so. On another note one Athlete who told his Wife he was going to be at the race watching, was spotted by his Wife live on the BBC kissing a much younger athlete. The Wife divorced him and the last I heard he married the younger athlete and had a child. Alex, the British league, founded on a promotion/relegation basis, must consist of about 1000 clubs in various leagues with yes Belgrave and Thames Valley Harriers the strongest. Ever run against Mark King? another Cornish wx athlete who was paid by Haringay to run in their British leagues and European league when Haringay was the winner of the British league and British representative. Athletes would do crazy combinations of say a 5000, pole vault and maybe the hurdles, just to gain points for ones club. This happened more so in the lower leagues as we could not turn up with enough athletes to fill all events. A Decathlete was a must in any team. Once I was asked to run a 3k steeple and could barely get over the hurdle being only 5ft.5. I think I ran 10.30 and that same week in the local paper the headline was a Steeple chaser is born! They only did this to encourage me to take it up as our club never had a steeplechaser. It ws the only one I ever did!. Rob Demark was a very gifted athlete and was at Basildon AC with Eamon Martin who went on to win the London marathon. Keith Cullen another Essex boy was the Kings of the roads, unbeatable in any National road relay. We used to train as a club for the National 6 and 12 stage relays as well, it certainly brought about a great team spirit, something which I see with the Speed River guys. My Next posting will be the story of the Edinburgh Commonwealth games, loosing my entry tickets/wallet/cash and when I slept on the large blow up hand that Kristy Wade, Winner of the Womens 800 ran around the track with on her victory parade. Ever joined a bunch of Welsh athletes on a drinking night down the Edinburgh Mile? if not you must be prepared to pay the consequences. Cheers DD
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Post by Bomba on Sept 17, 2008 1:08:06 GMT -5
...'we' aren't steve...just u r...I've heard some of them before on runs with kevin....
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Post by renfree on Sept 17, 2008 4:06:13 GMT -5
ddublin - I dont want to turn this into a completely off topic conversation, but who are you? I'm sure I must know you as I was also a member of Cornwall AC at the time you describe (I would have been a bit younger). I was part of Ben Penberthys group (Neil Caddy, Charlie Low and myself) but I recall many many trips to various events with the likes of Buzz, and Kinger, Chris Harry, as well as the N&P boys (Kev Toher, Geoff Gill, Darren Varker, Nigel Doyle, and Craig Dryden (the one with the iron shaped hole in his vest)). We used to do most of our running on the dunes at Gwithian, but I've also spent many Tuesday nights running reps at Carn Brea with Alan Rowlings group, and some long Sunday runs with Ronnie James down in Penzance. Cheers Andy Renfree (PS I'd never seen this site until I came across it yesterday lunchtime at work, and the first thread I read was talking about running in Cornwall in the early 90's - what are the chances of that?!)
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Post by oldster on Sept 17, 2008 10:26:25 GMT -5
Bring it, DD!
I've heard McCloy talk about the Edinburgh CWGs as the most fun he's ever had at a championships, so there may be a Canadian tie-in to your story. In fact, you may end up supplying it yourself, as the Newf is an international legend in his own right.
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Post by ddublin on Sept 17, 2008 17:58:13 GMT -5
Andy, how are you, its Kevin O'Connor. Where are you? I'm in Vancouver after moving out here in 1996 after meeting my Wife in Greece who is from here in Vancouver. I was just looking the other day at the Turkey trot fastest times, I think I got you by a second or 2! Hope your still running those good 1500s?. I'm still in touch with most of the Cornish boys, infact George Eustace Simon Paterson and I recently met up in London and New York. I heard Neil Caddy [ he was on the Durham trip] on the local Cornish radio, he sounds as though he is a proper DJ. Pity he gave up the running, sure was talented, like most of your group. I was at Cornwall in 1990 when you fellas moved over to Newquay. I saw Helen Harvey a few years ago, didn't recognize her all grown up. Anyhow rather than making this a personal message if you want to catch up I will give you my personal e-mail. Good to hear from you, small world. Good job I didn't embellish my stories! Cheers KEVIN aka DD, after my all time favorite Football player Dion Dublin [ Cambridge Utd ] well someone has to support them!
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Post by HHH on Sept 17, 2008 19:07:55 GMT -5
I lived in Watford from 2001 to 2004 and competed for Herne Hill Harriers. The BAL/SML matches are some of my favourite memories from those 3 years, those and the Surrey Cross Country league matches. We were in Division 3 a couple of years ago and had to travel to Cardiff and found ourselves very short on athletes. I competed in the long jump, triple jump, 5000m, 4x1 and 4x400m. Needless to say we didn't do very well that day! I also completed a more common triple in 2006 when I was on my back to Canada from Spain and did the 400m hurdles, the 5k and the discus. Ah, good times!!! I don't really miss much about England but I do miss spending many Saturdays with good friends competing hard. IMHO there aren't too many better ways to spend your weekends. Matt
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Post by ddublin on Sept 17, 2008 22:45:09 GMT -5
HHH-Did you ever come across another Kevin O'Connor, he ran for Watford in the early 80s and every now and then I saw him in the AW results still running for Watford, he must be about 40 or so now. The only time we raced was at Ampthill, where he beat me. Oldster go ahead and tell McCloys story, Im sure its amusing just as he was during the evening of one Haney relay where he sat on a chair in the middle of the dance floor asleep, surrounded by dancers and loud music booming. Every now and then persons would shout in his ear or flick his ear, when he would momentarily awake and fall back to sleep. Side note Andy Renfree was on the Winning team for Newquay or Cornwall in the prestigious National XC spoken about in ealrier posts either in the Junior or Youths Champs, which was even more special as the 4 athletes were from the most southernly west area of the UK and had to travel many miles for any real competivitve race. Cheers DD
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Post by bthistlewood on Sept 18, 2008 3:01:21 GMT -5
"Ever joined a bunch of Welsh athletes on a drinking night down the Edinburgh Mile? if not you must be prepared to pay the consequences."
I had the pleasure of joining a team of Welsh runners both in Edinburgh and down in Swansea (the night of their 6-nations win over England this year) and they were both nights I won't soon forget. I was running with the Edinburgh University Hares and Hounds, and we had a whole range of athletes from international calibre to fun runners, which made for a great mix of people.
One of my favourite stories from my time there is about one of the club athletes who wished to run a half marathon, but also wanted to defend his title at a local 5km, which was the same day - no easy feat considering the depth of the fields as has been discussed in this thread. He arrived early for the half, and parked his car such that in crossing the finish line he could basically get to his car and drive off right away... so ran the half marathon (7th overall, 1:12:54), then drove the 20 miles to the start of the next race, arrived just as the race was starting, and joined the race about a half a minute late. He ended up winning, and clocked a 15:17 on the boggy cross country course despite his late arrival.
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Post by renfree on Sept 18, 2008 3:40:55 GMT -5
Hi Kevin I guessed it may have been you, but must admit I was confused by the Dion Dublin thing. I'm still in contact with most of the old guys myself, and yes Neil is a 'proper' DJ - when I was down recently he was interviewing Sheryll Crowe. No longer running 1500's as I think my legs were on the verge of dropping off, although I'm doing a bit of road stuff. I'll need to check out the Turkey trot list and see if I can get the few seconds I need to move up. Like Kevin, I've loads of scarcely believeable stories about the good times, but I wont bore a noth american audience with them (I suspect only Kevin would know those concerned) Kevin - I think there is a private message function on this site where we can exchange scandalous gossip?
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woz
New Member
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Post by woz on Sept 18, 2008 12:22:07 GMT -5
Keep it coming Kev! Love hearing all those names Richards, Buzza, King et al. I lived in Taunton, Somerset so spent most of my weekends as a teenager running in Yeovil, Exeter and Plymouth in Westward and Avalon league meets. Who knows, we probably raced against each other at some point. BTW the only copy I have of Athletics Weekly has Jon Richards on the cover. You make me feel boring as I don't have any crazy running stories - guess I was too serious back then I remember how exciting it was to be a runner in the UK with all the Coe/Ovett/Cram stuff happening (I was a Coe guy but many years later have turned my allegiance to Ovett when I married a Brighton girl ;D) Coincidentally, (or am I just dragging this message out?) I got married in Greece and moved to Canada same year as you Kev... I remember having to work really hard to get the BMC qualifying times (Did they have different grades?) and being so excited to get into my first BMC race. I think I got most of my PB's at BMC races and also a good chance o see some of the big names. I raced (I use that term loosely) against Nick Rose in Bristol in a BMC mile and against Steve Jones in a 1500m at Cwmbran. Jones was the Marathon WR holder at the time and I remember thinking I would probably easily beat an older, slower marathoner. He tried to cut up the inside of me at the start but I held him off and pushed him onto the infield - he won the race in 3:45(ish) and I ran a PB 3:54 Woz
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woz
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Post by woz on Sept 18, 2008 12:28:54 GMT -5
www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcnews/1999spring.pdfPages 30 - 31 include a little sum-up of Ovett's training and his attitude towards it by his longtime training partner, as well as a table showing what a typical Ovett training week looked like in the winter, spring, and summer months. More BMC magazines for download here: www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcnews/Lots of good articles on middle distance and training logs for Cram, Scott and others Follow the links at the top of the page for all the archived copies of the magazine ( I missed that first time), they go back to 1964! Woz
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Post by ddublin on Sept 18, 2008 17:30:11 GMT -5
Woz, I have the Framed covers of Jon Richrads on the AW covers, March 12 1983 and Sept 10 1983. If you have another one, perhaps I could get a copy. I also got a copy of the AW cover with Buzza beating Barry Royden in the Southerns Feb 4 1998. Steve Jones was brilliant and continued his running career whilst still in the Army/RAF/Navy? as did Roger Hackney. Coming from Brighton Warren you must remember when the Brighton steeplechaser [ Mark? someone cant recall his name, now coaches lots of good athletes] getting the bronze in the Olympics and said the F word live on BBC, saying I fing told you id get a medal, talk about being pumped up. It was great. Anyone can still check the BMC RESULTS just by searching BMC and clicking onto the results. All standards are posted on thier website. Andy I will post you a private message on my return from my trip. Cheers DD
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Post by thinskinned on Sept 19, 2008 0:37:19 GMT -5
Rowland.....was driving me crazy!
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Post by HHH on Sept 19, 2008 4:15:53 GMT -5
HHH-Did you ever come across another Kevin O'Connor, he ran for Watford in the early 80s and every now and then I saw him in the AW results still running for Watford, he must be about 40 or so now. The only time we raced was at Ampthill, where he beat me. Oldster go ahead and tell McCloys story, Im sure its amusing just as he was during the evening of one Haney relay where he sat on a chair in the middle of the dance floor asleep, surrounded by dancers and loud music booming. Every now and then persons would shout in his ear or flick his ear, when he would momentarily awake and fall back to sleep. Side note Andy Renfree was on the Winning team for Newquay or Cornwall in the prestigious National XC spoken about in ealrier posts either in the Junior or Youths Champs, which was even more special as the 4 athletes were from the most southernly west area of the UK and had to travel many miles for any real competivitve race. Cheers DD Yes I think I did come across Kevin a few times. Quiet and very modest Irishman? Speaking of Irishmen, did you ever meet John Downes? He ran 2nd claim for us on the country and first claim on the track as London Irish didn't have a track component to their club. He is one of the funniest guys I have ever met and the first time I met him he told me a pretty funny story. He was running in the world cross champs in Boston and feeling pretty good when what he thought was this handicapped guy pulled up beside him and then proceeded to past him and keep pushing. At first he thought the guy must have just jumped on the course and somehow got caught up in the race. Then he realized that the guy had a number and was wearing a Canadian singlet. That guy was Paul McCloy to which I replied about racing Paul a few times out west (obviously much past his amazingly fast times otherwise I wouldn't be able to consider myself racing him). Of course John tells the story much better than I could and with a few extra f bombs thrown in there for good measure!!!
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Post by renfree on Sept 19, 2008 7:22:23 GMT -5
woz - I love the way this is turning into a load of old(ish) blokes remebering the way things were in the good old days. Presumably those BMC;s you did were part of Mike Downs Post Office Counters series? They were absolutely brilliant and as far as I'm concerned the new BMC GP series has not matched the quality of the old events. I used to love going to these events (usually in late August / September) which were usually in the middle of some open meet knowing that you were guaranteed a good race. I did my first ever sub 4 1500 in one of these at Cardiff (I was last by a long long way) and clearly remember a beautiful night at Swindon where I ran 3.45 to finish in 12th position (and was only the third U23 athlete from Newquay & Par AC). In answer to the question about qualifying times I remember being delighted to achieve the time after running 3.52 as an Under 20. I think at that point the qualifying time for seniors was 3.47, but they later significantly reduced this (although there was a 'gold member' status' depending on your pb's. You used to be eligible for the gold BMC vest if you achieved this.
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Post by ddublin on Sept 19, 2008 16:10:20 GMT -5
HHH-I never met John Downes, however he is a bit of a legend in UK XC terms. He is also known as a bit of an Animal, in the nicest possible terms. I believe he ran on raw talent. A few years ago there was an article posted in the AW that he had become seriously ill and a trust fund was set up to assist him. There was even a race in his honor for him somewhere. I have not seen him in any recent results, but I think he may have recovered. I think John was a true British Brickie, carrying heavy loads of bricks during the day and running at night. Andy, have you seen anything of John via the AW? Anyhow this will probably be my last post for a week, I will catch up with this post on my return, keep them coming. Cheers DD
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Post by HHH on Sept 19, 2008 18:00:51 GMT -5
HHH-I never met John Downes, however he is a bit of a legend in UK XC terms. He is also known as a bit of an Animal, in the nicest possible terms. I believe he ran on raw talent. A few years ago there was an article posted in the AW that he had become seriously ill and a trust fund was set up to assist him. There was even a race in his honor for him somewhere. I have not seen him in any recent results, but I think he may have recovered. I think John was a true British Brickie, carrying heavy loads of bricks during the day and running at night. Andy, have you seen anything of John via the AW? Anyhow this will probably be my last post for a week, I will catch up with this post on my return, keep them coming. Cheers DD From an article in AW, apparently JD's training was 20miles to work in the morning, laying bricks all day and then 20miles home in the evening. He is one of the toughest runners i have ever met, right up there with Paul McCloy. He did indeed recover from his illness and can still be in contention when he is fit. Matt
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