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Post by MattMc on Nov 4, 2006 14:07:32 GMT -5
This is not a witch hunt, just a simple question-- was Shari's suspension overturned? I saw she competed today at Casablanca. Results are up at Sportstats.ca
Matt
PS nice race by T. Milne, and a comeback of sorts for Moulton!
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Post by redbull on Nov 4, 2006 15:14:59 GMT -5
Matt, in case you have not seen this: www.runnersweb.com/running/rw_news_frameset.html?http://www.runnersweb.com/running/news/rw_news_20060918_Shari_Boyle.htmlWhat happened to me was an accident, and was deemed not intentional by an independent arbitrator in a a hearing process. As I alluded to in my post above, this has been an extremely hard situation for me to deal with. I included my e-mail address in that post, for the express purpose of offering people the opportunity to contact me with any questions that they might have. I am thankful that some have chosen to do so already. If you are not intending what you say is a "witch hunt", I would think that you might want to contact me directly as well, and I would be happy to answer questions that you might have. It sure beats gossip on a message board. I hope that you, and everyone, can respect how hard it has been on me as an athlete who simply made a mistake. Sincerely, Shari
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Post by MattMc on Nov 4, 2006 15:18:36 GMT -5
Shari, thanks for replying. I hadn't heard what had happened. Glad the misunderstanding was cleared up for you and you are able to compete. It's not really gossip if I post under my own name and you reply to me is it?
Best, Matt
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Post by im on Apr 24, 2007 21:14:18 GMT -5
So i ran into a triathlon coach on the weekend and he was telling me he was at york a few weeks ago and apparently some drug testers showed up for a random test for shari boyle.. and apparently after they made contact with her, she said she was heading to the bathroom and then suddenly took off, out of the building...never to be seen again...
Anyone heard anything? I'd say running away from a drug tester constitutes guilt? I dont think someone who is innocent would run and hide....
Is this another innocent mistake?(as quoted in the last post?)
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Post by cacofonix on Apr 25, 2007 7:38:45 GMT -5
I'd say running away from a drug tester constitutes guilt? According to Canadian Center for Ethics in Sport (CCES) policies at cces.ca/pdfs/CCES-POLICY-CADP-E.pdf the rules that are apparently applicable are: "7.14 As a condition to regaining eligibility at the end of a specified period of Ineligibility, an Athlete must, during any period of Provisional Suspension or Ineligibility, make him or herself available for Out-of-Competition Testing by any Anti-Doping Organization having Testing jurisdiction," As for whether an offense has now been committed: "7.24 Refusing, or failing without compelling justification, to submit to Sample collection after notification as authorized in applicable anti-doping rules or otherwise evading Sample collection is an anti-doping rule violation. "
Given that testers have previously likely heard all the excuses in the book ('I had five beers and sex four times last night'....'someone tampered with my toothpaste') it would take a pretty good story to meet the 'compelling justification' criteria.
As there has already been an initial violation resulting in the current 1 year suspension, this rule represents the rather serious consequences:
"7.23 Except for the specified substances identified in Rule 7.7, the period of Ineligibility imposed for this anti-doping rule violation shall be: First violation: Two (2) years Ineligibility. [b]Second violation: Lifetime Ineligibility.[/b]"
If the story recounted by 'im' is true, then there likely will be a release to that effect on the CCES site at http://cces.ca/forms/index.cfm?dsp=template&act=view3&template_id=116&lang=e
Previous examples of refusals are thrower Derek Woodske http://cces.ca/pdfs/CCES-MR-ViolationWoodske-E.pdf and Bishop's University football player James Kelleher http://cces.ca/pdfs/CCES-MR-ViolationKelleher-E.pdf
(Kelleher's arbitration hearing report makes for pretty amusing reading: http://www.adrsportred.ca/resource_centre/pdf/English/NR-448120.pdf as he refuses to have anything to do with the process.)
However, even with the refusal, there is apparently the opportunity for the athlete to appeal and have a hearing, with the public release of the offense not occurring until after the arbitrator has delivered their verdict. Pending confirmation from Ms Boyle or the conclusion of the process by CCES, the above is just speculation.
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Post by morevelocity on Apr 25, 2007 8:14:06 GMT -5
Shari did not refuse to submit a sample. She was sick with food poisoning and unable to provide a sample that night. She did not "take off" as im suggested. She notified one of the CCES officials, as she is obligated to stay in their view once she signs the form to consent to the test, that she was sick and needed to go to the washroom, after which, a friend who saw her almost faint, made the decision to take her home. In accordance with CCES rules, the official should have gone to the washroom with Shari but did not for some reason...so at this point the whole process is suspect. This message board is a really great discussion tool, but please be careful, as an athlete's reputation is at stake here.
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Post by cacofonix on Apr 25, 2007 8:33:42 GMT -5
Shari did not refuse to submit a sample. She was sick with food poisoning and unable to provide a sample that night. Maybe you can clarify some things then with respect to the official CCES policies and procedures. cces.ca/pdfs/CCES-POLICY-CADP-E.pdfSpecifically, paragraphs 6.43, 6.45, 6.47 and 6.48. It is quite often that an athlete can not provide a sample immediately upon notification. That is why protocol exists for the chaperone and tester to hang out with the athlete until they can produce. There have been cases where testers have had to hang around the athlete's living room for a few hours as they showed up at the end of a workout and the athlete was rather dehydrated. If the athlete was sick, could CCES not have taken them to a hospital? Are you saying that the CCES officials OK'd the athlete leaving the facility without their escort and bypassing the provision of a sample? If that were the case, then wouldn't the whole random testing system be irrelevant because anyone could similarly avoid providing a sample if they didn't choose to (or were afraid of testing positive)? There is a reason for the rule in paragraph 7.24 regarding refusal of tests. While I agree the message board may not be the greatest of forums until there is an official CCES announcement, it really isn't that complicated: Either a sample was provided or it was not. There is little leeway in the rules I've referenced that allow for scenarios to avoid providing a sample. If a sample is not provided then a violation is considered to have occurred and the relevant penalties are applied (following appropriate hearings and appeal). Look up the case of 5 time World Cross-Country champ John Ngugi. A tester showed up at his house and didn't fully identify himself. Ngugi didn't clue in as to just who that individual was and shooed him away without providing a sample. That was a refusal of test and Ngugi was suspended.
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Post by Steller on Apr 25, 2007 9:07:27 GMT -5
Shari- could you at least tell us what brand of tea you consumed to test you positive for ephedra?....so that other athletes can stay away!!!
I should note, that a recent publication by a drug testing lab in Germany analyzed 634 european based nutritional supplements that, non of which claimed any illegal substances on the label. And, a huge 15% of the supplements contained anabolic androgenic steriods!
So athletes be aware....
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Boner
New Member
It's Walker! It's Bannon! It's too close to call...
Posts: 24
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Post by Boner on Apr 25, 2007 9:56:59 GMT -5
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Post by champion on Apr 25, 2007 15:02:43 GMT -5
I'm curious as to the type of tea consumed as well and if the year suspenion was overturned.
You really have to be careful what you consume as an athlete. I remember in the 90s Athletics Canada was sponsored by a company called Mannatech and they issued nutritional supplements to a number of national team members. One of the products was for recovery after exercise called "Sport". Well it contained bovine testes which can be converted to nandrolone by the body. My husband was getting these supplements as a national team member at the time and called the CES to check on them and low and behold, no one from AC had sent any of these for testing. If I recall correctly, a sprinter at UofT tested positive for nandrolone because of these supplements but did not get sanctioned.
The moral of the story is, even if YOUR OWN governing body signs a contract with a supplements company, you still need to get them checked out by CES.
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Post by morevelocity on Apr 26, 2007 6:01:11 GMT -5
I posted above in response to im, in order to provide some facts instead of speculation. She did tell a CCES official at the track that she was sick. There are actually a few witnesses to the severity of her sickness. It is a fact that the CCES' job is to stick with the athlete, so to speak, so yes, the whole process on that evening is up for scrutiny because this did not happen. Shari was not mad at Matt's post, she just pointed out how she did not want to discuss personal things on here. If you really want answers, Shari offered to answer any, via e-mail, in her response to Matt. im, cacofonix,carls, if you are really interested, just e-mail Shari and ask.
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Post by cacofonix on Apr 26, 2007 7:27:11 GMT -5
I posted above in response to im, in order to provide some facts instead of speculation. And facts over speculation is appreciated. Feel free to correct any facts here that are incorrect: CCES showed up to conduct an out-of-competition test. Papers were signed acknowledging notification by CCES (para 6.44). Before providing a sample, the athlete left the sight of the CCES officials (para 6.48). Without providing a sample, athlete left the facility. CCES did not approve or condone athlete's departure. Instead of proceeding to a hospital, athlete went home. No sample was provided to CCES at any point in this process. At this point, the rules under Annex 6A would need to be followed with respect to CCES fully investigating and documenting this possible failure to comply with testing procedures. Not that this is the proper forum for you to be answering this, but this line represents the crux of the matter. If the CCES official then gave permission for the athlete to leave the facility without providing a sample, then they would document that and presumably the end result would be no violation would be considered to have occurred. But this is where it looks shady. If one need just convince the Doping Control Officer (DCO) that one is 'sick' (food poisoning, etc) in order to avoid providing a sample, then would not each and every athlete who is actually cheating and worried about being caught feign a similar illness? Would this precedent not make the whole out-of-competition testing completely irrelevant since there would be no way to ensure sample collection from athletes? This is where the explanation does not pass the smell test. That is understandable if one does not wish to discuss such things on a public forum such as this, but one must also realize that this is not entirely a personal matter. The athlete has been on past national teams and is already under suspension for a doping violation. Such violations are not secret and if this current situation pans out, there will be a public announcement of the findings by the CCES. Of course in the meantime the athlete may choose to keep quiet and only share information with their coach/club/advisors as far as dealing with the hearing and appeal process, but eventually the end result will be made known. Furthermore, with the scenario that occurred, it appears knowledge of this situation is widely known given that the events took place at such a public location as the York track. Just because the athlete and CCES choose to withhold comment is not going to prevent fans and participants of the sport from engaging in discussion on the issue. So few Canadian Athletics athletes have tested positive or committed any kind of doping infraction in recent years that it is noteworthy within the sport when it does happen. Hence this thread.
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Post by im on Apr 26, 2007 8:21:33 GMT -5
I think the big issue here is the fact that the athlete ran away from the drug tester. If the athlete in fact had "food poisoning" then why would they not tell the tester that, and ask to avoid the test. The fact that they ran out of the facility without telling anyone looks very suspicious...this is almost starting to sound like the Greek athletes and their apparent motorcycle accident at the olympics.
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Post by pq on Apr 26, 2007 8:26:10 GMT -5
The sustained attacks in this thread represent the worst aspect of our sport.
The current discussion has started based on a rumour - someone's second hand story about what somebody told somebody else - NOT facts, as you like to present them. The "facts" are for a real "court" to decide, not you, by speculation, in an internet message board.
Shari Boyle is NOT under suspicion for a doping violation. She has gone through due process and has been suspended for a doping violation, however, the arbitrator has found it was accidental. There's no suspicion - there was a violation, and it was unintentional.
I don't know why we do it, but we seem to love to do this to ourselves, eating our own, inventing drug allegations based on hearsay.
Here's an idea... why don't you let due process take its course. If Shari is eventually found guilty of something, you can come back on this thread and tell me you told me so. And I'll come back and admit that yeah, you got me.
Meanwhile, why don't we suspend judgment in the court of public opinion and let the official process unfold as designed, with no further undue harm to a fellow athlete's reputation.
I don't know Shari, and have never met her (couldn't pick her out in a crowd). But I get uncontrollably irritated when an asshole starts a drug rumour on the internet. Give it a rest.
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Post by runsnikpoh on Apr 26, 2007 8:30:29 GMT -5
Well put pq. Time to move on and use our time in a positive nature.
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Post by SI on Apr 26, 2007 8:46:34 GMT -5
But I get uncontrollably irritated when an asshole starts a drug rumour on the internet. This was a reasonably rational discussion(sometime they aren't) until this post.
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Post by pq on Apr 26, 2007 8:51:13 GMT -5
This was a reasonably rational discsussion(sometime they aren't) until this post. Mea culpa. However, I stand by my statement. One who starts an internet-based drug rumour is, by definition (in my mind only perhaps), an asshole. However, this discussion was not rational before I polluted it with my epithets. It's not rational to launch accusations based on speculation and rumour simply because you discuss it calmly and politely. Polite and calm, yes, but not rational. At least not in my view.
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Post by cacofonix on Apr 26, 2007 8:54:43 GMT -5
The sustained attacks in this thread represent the worst aspect of our sport. PQ, while I agree that incorrect statements or insinuations are uncalled for and not helpful in the least, this is apparently not just "based on a rumour". Poster 'morevelocity' essentially confirms the anecdote recounted by im and there were many others present at York and aware to one degree or another of what took place. The 'facts' don't suddenly come into existence in a court. They may then be officially confirmed, but what has happened does not change, nor do people who witnessed some or all of the events suddenly develop memories as to what they saw. What you are referring to here is a different event. Last year the athlete tested positive for a banned stimulant at the National Duathlon championships. Through the course of the hearings (documented in the arbitrator's report), no conclusive source of the stimulant could be identified by the athlete. Despite this lack of plausible defence, the arbitrator chose to give the athlete the benefit of the doubt that they were not deliberately trying to enhance their performance and consequently reduced the suspension from two years to one year (expiring Sept 2007). This was registered as a first offence. What we have now is a second event, apparently occurring relatively recently, whereby the athlete supposedly evaded an out-of-competition test (required prior to their suspension being completed). As recounted by 'im' and apparently confirmed by 'morevelocity', the athlete acknowledged the presence of CCES and then left prior to providing a sample. On the face of it, this constitutes a doping violation as per para 7.24. 'morevelocity' has provided a possible excuse as to why the sample was not provided, but has not explained whether this excuse was acceptable to CCES or even how it jives with allowable exemptions described in the referenced CCES document. It does not appear anything was invented. While 'im' may not have been present, it appears 'morevelocity' was and is familiar with the athlete. There are others who were present who haven't posted here who similarly recount the same basic 'facts' listed above. Where the speculation begins is what the conclusion of the CCES will be. If they decide that an infraction has been committed, this would be violation number two and that means a life time suspension. Serious stuff. That is a good suggestion, however human nature being what it is, it isn't likely to be followed. As mentioned before, Canada sees so few track athletes commit doping infractions that when one does happen, particularly when it involves some apparent public drama as recounted by both 'im' and 'morevelocity', it becomes fodder for the chattering classes. Pretty well everyone here is committed to fair play and the well being of the sport. It obviously is a concern to all of us when the rules we must follow are apparently disregarded and hence why this topic is a hot-button issue.
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Post by pq on Apr 26, 2007 9:03:01 GMT -5
PQ, while I agree that incorrect statements or insinuations are uncalled for and not helpful in the least, this is apparently not just "based on a rumour". Poster 'morevelocity' essentially confirms the anecdote recounted by im and there were many others present at York and aware to one degree or another of what took place. Perhaps when you get as old and jaded as me, you will learn to cast a suspicious eye to what you read on the internet from message board posters. The "facts" are only facts when they've been tested in a proper, rigourous forum, which this message board hardly represents. If you perpetuate these so-called facts and represent them as factual, then you're participating in baseless (so far) character assassination, and also setting yourself up to look like an ass if these "facts" don't pan out. Time may prove these "facts" to be correct, but the number of times they get repeated on the internet bears no relation to their actual veracity. It's better for both you and the athlete in question (and her reputation) for you to suspend judgment.
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Post by SI on Apr 26, 2007 9:11:55 GMT -5
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Post by pq on Apr 26, 2007 9:19:48 GMT -5
Did you suspend judgement on Kelli White and her ludicrous sleep disorder excuse until the facts came out even though she was backed up by an MD? In fact I did. I also suspended judgment about Ben Johnson. Ditto Floyd Landis (I'll admit that was a little tougher to do, mind you). This is the real problem. People generally aren't willing to suspend judgment, as you've hinted you weren't. Therefore, when a drug rumour is started, the athlete is de facto guilty without having had the opportunity to defend themselves. You people have done real harm to Shari's reputation by making and extending these allegations in this thread. I honestly hope that should the claims prove to be groundless, that she has a legal basis to go after the person who started this latest rumour, and that she follows that path. That might help limit (I doubt it, but one can hope) the occurrence of rumour-based drug allegations on the internet. Once an athlete has been found guilty of a doping allegation, I'm happy to join with the haters. I despise Ben Johnson to this day, and will not use his name in a respectful context until he accepts public responsibility, and stops blaming others and the system. By contrast, I think Shari has been unfairly treated by her fellow Canadian track athletes, at least in this latest discussion.
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Post by SI on Apr 26, 2007 9:29:20 GMT -5
I am willing to suspend judgement but not if it doesn't pass the smell test. Kelli didn't by any stretch of the imagination. If your tolerance for suspending judgement is someone even more ridiculous than her then we are going to have to agree to disagree because we have no consistent frames of reference. And I won't just accept postings on a board. In Kelli's case, I did a bit of research on the incidence of narcolepsy in the general population and it was much less in the general population than with elite atheletes. Then the jet lag excuse started to float, so I actually went back and analyzed the schedules of the athletes in question to see if that was reasonable and, it too, wasn't. In this particular case, I have heard from people that I consider credible that witnessed this event(actually confirmed above) and, yes, I too am having a hard time suspending judgement.
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Post by pq on Apr 26, 2007 11:55:27 GMT -5
SI,
it's fine that you have formed your own opinion about this matter, but it's not responsible, in my mind, for you to share that opinion here in a discussion accusing an athlete of an offense. You are free to do so, but in so doing (as you've just done), in the event the claims are found to be baseless, you have just knowingly participated in a libel (or can they call is slander? I know we're writing here, but I'm not up on the internet slander/libel laws). And you have continued to tarnish the reputation of a fellow athlete who has represented her country.
Shame on you.
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Post by SI on Apr 26, 2007 12:09:37 GMT -5
It's not an opinion that she missed a test. That has been verified right here. That is a fact. How is that slander or libel? Did I draw any definite conclusions from that? No. Under the strict liability rules(as with it doesn't matter how the substance got in there), it is clear that she has a problem. Whether she can get out of that problem remains to be seen.
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Post by pq on Apr 26, 2007 12:18:57 GMT -5
It's not an opinion that she missed a test. That has been verified right here. That is a fact. "That has been verified right here." - verified by a message board poster at tnfnorth, you can bank on it! I need to apply for a new mortgage this month. Do you think the bank will let me use "SI, tnfnorth poster" as a character reference? I'll wait for an official announcement myself.
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Post by SI on Apr 26, 2007 12:29:22 GMT -5
Maybe you missed this post. If so, your unnecessary sarcasm is understandable: tnfnorth.proboards70.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1162667252&page=1#1177506846If you review the prior posts by this individual, it is clear that she is very familiar with the athlete in question. So, yes, I am willing to accept at face value that she missed the test based on the above post particularly since she is sympathetic to the individual. It is called testifying against interest. A concept that actually makes the information more credible.
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Post by pq on Apr 26, 2007 12:50:37 GMT -5
No I saw that post. I'm trying to make a general point, not quibble with you about whether or not a tester showed up and she didn't give a sample. If you've read the rest of the thread, as I'm sure you have, these details have been extended to draw the automatic conclusion that she's guilty of a doping infraction due to those circumstances.
While the conclusion being drawn may eventually prove to be legitimate, you are all leaping to that conclusion without considering whether other circumstances may be relevant.
There's no way for an athlete in her situation to win with you lot. It's guilty until proven innocent, and even then (as the arbitrator ruled the previous offence was not her fault, she was therefore not guilty), still guilty.
I'm glad I'll never be good enough to be in her shoes facing this crowd.
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Post by SI on Apr 26, 2007 12:54:12 GMT -5
I'm trying to make a general point, not quibble with you about whether or not a tester showed up and she didn't give a sample. No. You have accused me of making a slanderous and libelous post. That looks pretty specific to me. I pointed out that she missed a test.
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Post by pq on Apr 26, 2007 12:59:07 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm not being very clear I suppose. I meant what I wrote when I suggested your post was potentially slanderous/libelous, assuming that there is no merit to the initial accusations. Sorry if I just gave the impression that's not what I meant. It can be hard to follow my reasoning sometimes (even for me), so let me know if I need to explain myself further.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. You strike me as a reasonable guy. But when you said "smell test" and "can't suspend judgment" I read that to mean, from the context of this thread, that you believe this athlete is guilty of an offence. If that's not what you meant, then I don't think you were libelous.
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Post by SI on Apr 26, 2007 13:01:25 GMT -5
Anyone is free to draw whatever conclusions they wish from my preamble. I can't control that.
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